Brace or not to brace?

[strictly]

I need to repair the longitudinal, I want to expose the inner rocker something like this



My 911 looks like this....

As you can see I have to not just repair the longitudinal but also floor and front mid and end of sill (and bottom of torsion bar/heater tube)

Q1 - shall I brace or not brace? I read Ron Roland's most excellent 356 book and Ron was very much against bracing....but should I?

Q2 - shall I replace just the sides of the floor, or should I buy a top and bottom and cut what I need?

Q3 - What order should I work? Shall I tackle the front end of the sill first? I would like to expose the whole area like Daryl did.....but should I?

Q4- I also need to remove the rear quarter panel....shall I just remove part of it, and get the sill and heater tubes (including under the torsion bar) work finished first or should I take the quarter panel off and work towards the front of the car?

For the moment I have just been setting the panel gaps, but the time to do some real welding work is approaching and I am trying to decide the best order to do it in...

[bob joyce]

i dont know what you are bracing.
i dont know what some 356 guy would say what to not brace
in your example you have to support the entire car.
hanging it like some kind of a pig on a spit is Ludacris.
Most importantly.... you have to weld slowly in very small increments allowing the welds to cool (if you don't do this it won't matter what else you have done.)

[bob joyce]

only a car that is structurally sound can be put on a rotisserie.
it is possible that your car may not be able to withstand this.
to do your car properly you need to put it either on a jig or on fixtures anchored to the floor.
then you measure the entire car to assure it is correct.
after you have replaced all of the body parts you can then place it on a rotisserie.

[71gold]

I see the bracing of your example car…it looks like only sections of the flooring need to be replaced if true then buy floors they sell in 1/2 floors by Restoration Design in Canada think they will have all components needed ….torsion bar tube & floors first ….then longitudinals then front suspension pans .
You will need to use body dimensions in manuals to check & make sure alignments are correct for all suspension components..Restoration Design has some very good videos for new metal fitting and fabrication done at the shop

Need more photos of the rear suspension, floors , cross cross member tube (torsion bar ) front suspension

Bob has made some very excellent points and recommendations

[71gold]

BTW ….be really careful re rear 1/4 panel replacement …..
Where you cut is very important and whether your able to keep the jamb portion and criteria fitment in the 1/4 window areas and especially at the rear taillight fitment, rear lid etc…

[Bobs 67S]

Strictly,
the caution for not using bracing is about starting with an out-of-shape car.
A vehicle may have prior accident damage or sagged from missing panel integrity. Putting braces in a car
prior to knowing it has correct key points will be making a hard job even harder when refitting doors, lids
and panel gaps. Having a door bottom rear corner stick out on a twisted car could not be fun - I've seen a car with a
half inch of bondo to "fix" that problem. And a car fresh off a rotisserie where the hood had perfect gap at the cowl
and twice the gap on one side and overlap on it's other down by the front bumper. Putting in a X brace
would have made a big difference to that car, or a workman taking a diagonal measurement prior to welding in the
front panels.
I Hope Daryl has updated his very good body work tutorial by noting the heater tube is part of the
rear structure around the torsion tube and critical to fore/aft body strength. His flexible tube in that area gave me shivers.
I would expect a car with that fix to be showing body flex cracks at the rear lid top corners.

[bob joyce]

yes, you really need to know what you have.
placing it on fixtures of some sort so that you can measure. (Measurements are voided if car is not level)
And placing a torpedo level in the door threshold would not be wise due to these cars being worked on so much. The best leveling method would be to elevate the rear engine mounts, the transmission mounts, the steering rack mounts and the front torsion bar bolt cluster. Thus, putting the car on the design plane and level.
And yes, the steel heater tubs in an early car should be welded to adjacent metals to stiffen car
putting some kind of flexible tubing to save money would be unwise.

[66S]

I’m willing to bet Ron Roland has worked on a 911 or two. The brace in the photo is not connected to a sturdy place on the chassis that won’t move if stressed. A 911 or 356 coupe has good integrity and shouldn’t need bracing, open cars are a different story. Cool your welds and you won’t need to portapower your car back into proper shape like my first very extensive 911 body restoration. Since then I’ve done lots of open and closed Porsche restos with no problems.

[strictly]

Hi all, so first a thank you for your replies. I appreciate the concerns and the advice.

I do have some good news. I have very much been taking a cautions approach. So far my starting point has actually to build the whole car with new front wings, so that I can perfect all of my panel gaps before I even thought of cutting and welding.

In addition I plan to measure my body like this before I start.

The car looks perfectly straight by eye, but it never hurts to be sure.

I also have 3 tools to use

1 roll over jig - So far just for cleaning....may weld as car is supported by wheel hubs, so i can work for welding

2 car wheel stands I'll post a picture in a sec

3 rotisserie....but only for when the body has been fully welded...not before

I don't own a cellette bench jig... realistically I'm not going to for this project. While perfection....the average user on this forum restoring their 911....doesn't have one either.

do you think the wheel stands are a good start or shall I support the car another way?

They look like this[

So I can do this



And thoughts for where to start, once I finish my panel gaps and measurements I will be ready to take a sill off...?

Ps.

If the car is straight...should I brace just to be sure or not worry about it because ”coupes pretty much take care of them selves”?

P.ps.

I will leave doors and lids on so I can keep an eye on panel gaps while working. That is the Ron Roland method. The doors are the alignment guides. Great book by the way, best I have ever read.

[strictly]

yes, you really need to know what you have.
placing it on fixtures of some sort so that you can measure. (Measurements are voided if car is not level)
And placing a torpedo level in the door threshold would not be wise due to these cars being worked on so much. The best leveling method would be to elevate the rear engine mounts, the transmission mounts, the steering rack mounts and the front torsion bar bolt cluster. Thus, putting the car on the design plane and level.
And yes, the steel heater tubs in an early car should be welded to adjacent metals to stiffen car
putting some kind of flexible tubing to save money would be unwise.

Bob by elevate...do you mean support at these points with Jack stands which are level on the ground?