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Thread: California may crack down on classic cars

  1. #1
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    California may crack down on classic cars

    If the California calls you about your classic car operation, tell them you hardy ever drive it. They are thinking about zero emission zone like London has.
    1. Chris-Early S Registry#205
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  2. #2
    Senior Member NZVW's Avatar
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    Chris, the same is happening globally. Its the EV revolution pushed by mis/uninformed environmentalists. Here is NZ the 'push' is well underway, fuel prices are on the up n up, roads are becoming cycleways and residential roadside car parking either user charged or just non existent. They want us to use public transport more but are 30 years behind in creating the necessary utilities ie EV buses, light and heavy rail.
    The NZ GOVT has put a halt on our own Natural Gas and coal suppling in preference to import 3rd grade coal from India via International sea freight ( can't see where the Carbon Footprint is improved here)
    Don't get me wrong, I understand that we all need to make changes in direction in regards to emissions but I am a firm believer that you need to learn how to walk before you can run.
    There is chat about introducing a 'levy' for cars to use inner city roads in our major cities and I am happy for that on the proviso that there are exemptions for certain vehicles ie trade, food and other essential services or else the cost flow on effect just punches the cost of living even higher than it already is.
    I know that ERS don't like "political'' posts but for me if I had to pay an extra tax or levy to drive my 911 I would be happy to do so.
    Mark

  3. #3
    In the UK we have Ultra Low Emission Zones in many cities which charge to go in if you have a poluting car of a certain age and type, but also cars over 40 years old (on a rolling basis) are exempt as 'classics'.....

    Quite a nice way of dealing with it and it is generally realised that the impact of the few that get used is minimal....
    Matthew

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by raspy2point2 View Post
    If the California calls you about your classic car operation, tell them you hardy ever drive it. They are thinking about zero emission zone like London has.
    Lobby for classic exemption. In London lobbying worked, as mentioned if your classic is more than 40 years old and is registered for the historic vehicle tax class, you will not need to pay the ULEZ charge.

    Motorists seem to have lost the will to lobby. Automobiles have long been subject to pressure here initially from this with a vested interest in the horse remaining dominant — little historical perspective shows these squeezes on motoring are nothing new and were around at the dawn of automobilism :

    1865 – Locomotive Act (amended 1878) – restricted the speed of horse-less vehicles to 4mph in open country and 2 mph in towns. Act required three drivers for each vehicle – 2 to travel in the vehicle and one to walk ahead carrying a red flag – known as the Red Flag Act.
    1896 – Repeal of 1865 ‘Red Flag Act’ after nearly two decades of strong support from horse interests. Horse-less vehicles now free to travel faster than walking pace! Royal Automobile Club founded.
    1896 (14 November) – The Emancipation Run, the precursor to the London to Brighton Veteran Car Run, was organised to celebrate the passing of the Locomotives on Highways Act. Thirty-three pioneering motorists celebrated the new motoring freedoms.
    1905 – Automobile Association founded – fights to support members caught by police speed traps.

    At my club every year there is a week-long series of activities held in and around the clubhouse to celebrate miring week culminating in our world famous London to Brigton veteran run. This year’s staging of the world’s longest running motoring event by the RAC takes place on Sunday 5 November, commemorating the famous Emancipation Run of November 1896.

    https://www.veterancarrun.com/

    Today much of London has 20mph speed limit enforced by cameras etc which sounds like it would be a pain but reality is it’s hard to do that top speed in the capital. This is some data from 2019:

    “Long term general traffic speeds in London are measured for central, inner and outer London using GPS-based data for key roads. Weekday (07:00 to 19:00) speeds from 2008 to 2018 have changed from:

    8.7 mph to 7.1 mph in central London
    12.5 mph to 11.6 mph in inner London
    20.3 mph to 19.3 mph in outer London”

    Rat runs are closed off to out of borough drivers grounds of pollution and safety leading to polarised views among local residents.

    Article in the Daily Mail gives some idea of the conflicting views even though it probably has a bias no doubt there are tensions

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...shortcuts.html

    My view is while governments as elected bodies set the goals they should leave it to the market and the engineers to solve the problem in terms of the technical solutions — this will drive to the most efficient and effective long term solution at scale imo. By incentivising a particular technical solution eg BEV they may get apparent progress with adoption but is it the best solution? I’m not convinced BEV is the optimum when through life impacts cradle to grave are considered. A view shared by some of my motorsport colleagues who know a thing or two about rapid technology innovation in a regulated four wheels environment but in fairness not so much about its mass adoption directly.

    Im not a big follower of politics but seems that things like ULEZ are rising up the British national political agenda in part because they can affect election results —so lobbying might on motoring matters might have more impact.

    For example this between the leader of the opposition who some expect to be the next prime minister if Labour Party win next general election per the polls predictions and the Labour Mayor of London

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66264893

    Also evidence such matters are moving up the political agenda recent shift on policy by the prime minister?


    https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bri...ak-2023-09-20/


    Steve
    Last edited by 911MRP; 09-26-2023 at 01:27 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member raspritz's Avatar
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    In Colorado, cars model year 1975 and earlier can be registered with a Collector Car license plate and are exempt from emissions testing and are not limited in terms of miles-per-year driven. There are other categories for cars later than 1975 that are at least 32 years old. This seems a reasonable approach.
    Rich Spritz

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  6. #6
    That's all nice and good but California is not always "reasonable" in their constant quest to lead the world in every "progressive" legal aspect. Witness the non rolling Smog cutoff.. Witness the fact that the rest of the country can import 25y old RoW cars but California cannot because they're unsmoggable...
    I have a 20y old M3 that is in perfect shape emissions wise that never got "ready" to pass smog in time because when you unplug the battery, it takes a very specific and hard to replicate drive cycle to make all the ODB stuff switch to"ready". Was the car polluting any more or less, nope, just not ready... There was absolutely no way to get the car inspected or sniffed at the tail pipe for actual pollution, nope... that year had to be ready on ODB or you park it... I can't even imagine what cockamamie law they'll come up with re:classics, but that's OK I'll ship my 911 elsewhere if it comes to that. And before you get the wrong idea, my daily is an EV (480hp polestar)!
    Greg.
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    #1461

  7. #7
    Politicians listening capability is directly proportional to the number of voters who are behind a certain issue and how much noisy they are. Get organised, set-up a lobby maybe via one of the existing oldtimers' association, like we do in other countries.
    Member #2768 http://www.no-speedlimit.it

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  8. #8
    Hot take:

    I think the adoption of EVs is going to be so quick, that they won't even have to worry about classic cars or emissions zones in 10-20 years.

    I obviously love IC cars. I own lots. I race them, I collect them. But as far as transport goes, EVs are better for most people's daily needs. Minimal service requirements, and with how complicated modern IC vehicles have become thanks to emission standards, dare I say they are simpler. Save the gas for the enthusiasts and get a golf cart to take you to work.

    I never thought I'd say this, but for daily use, I prefer my Tesla Model Y Performance to the 2020 E63S Wagon it replaced. Faster, quieter, instant power, and the ability to leave the AC on for the dog and watch him on the car's interior camera is priceless. It also charges off my roof, so I create the energy I use. Strangely the Tesla also weighs several hundred pounds less and has fewer squeaks and rattles than the 140K Mercedes.

    Boring AF to drive though. Like I said, golf cart.

    Once EVs become cheap enough for the masses, I see little reason why people would buy an IC car. Keep the gas for the enthusiasts.

  9. #9
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    If it comes we need help from the people with power, we will get somebody like Jay Leno to go to bat for us against the government. and get a petition going and put it to the voters. California would greatly suffer a economic downfall if classic cars were no longer restored.
    1. Chris-Early S Registry#205
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattexplore View Post
    I obviously love IC cars. I own lots. I race them, I collect them. But as far as transport goes, EVs are better for most people's daily needs. Minimal service requirements, and with how complicated modern IC vehicles have become thanks to emission standards, dare I say they are simpler. Save the gas for the enthusiasts and get a golf cart to take you to work.
    Along with original intent of emissions equipment, in the end it served to bludgeon and compromise engines with a guarantee of myriad electrical problems. They're seen as complicated today, requiring many parts, when the reality should be the opposite. We're stuck with this swirling romance in the air of electric cars doing things easily and smoothly.. vs: the ic car.

    They're quiet, and boast 'horsepower' figures.. But it's not horsepower porting the head, cylinders, machine work, design of a cam etc., but horsepower by 'battery pack' ! In what way, shape or form is that a smart design ? Cell upon cell, rows of chemical packs wired in series, to send you down the road with voltage.

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