67 rear end negative camber prob...

[neilk]

Shawn,

How does your car handle right now? Have the spring plate bushings ever been changed?

I recently changed the spring plate bushings and trailing arm bushings in my car and it made a huge difference. If you are worried about cost, you can always buy used torsion bars. Your car is so light that you could buy some SC or Carrera torsion bars to stiffen the suspension. I got a set of SC torsion bars that were in mint condition for $50 including shipping.

So for about $300 (spring plate bushings, trailing arm bushings and used torsion bars) you could really improve your handling.

[Shawn]

Just returned from the shop. She's got 2 degrees of neg on drivers side and 1.75 on right side. Camber adjust slots are in fair shape and the bushings are even better. There is no more room to adjust without raising the ride height. We are going to try and grind out more adjustment space at the end of the slot before I order new torsions and ajustable plates.

I am a concerned about obvious structural effects to the spring plates so we are going to keep the grinding to a minumum, reset and measure. If I screw it up then the new parts cost will be better justified.

Front end was spot on with only .5 neg camber. The car looks sooo good low that I just can't bring myself to raise it any at all. Oh well, I'll report the findings next week. We've got blue skies and 60 plus temps. I'm not messing with it until after the holiday weekend. Cheers, Shawn.

[Wolf Knierim]

Shawn,
Food for thought; You were considering a new wheel/tire combo, I am running 16x6 fuchs with 205/55 rubber in my stock fendered 67 and they fill up the wheel wells nicely. I don't know your current tire diam but a larger diam tire will fill that wheelwell without radical lowering, if that is what your after. Plus the tire selection for 16" is numerous.

Wolfgang

[Shawn]

...just another totally original swb with hub caps.

[studeb]

Originally posted by Shawn
Just returned from the shop. She's got 2 degrees of neg on drivers side and 1.75 on right side. Camber adjust slots are in fair shape and the bushings are even better. There is no more room to adjust without raising the ride height.

Sorry to hijack this thread Shawn, i have a '65, with a similar problem, i cannot get rid of the toe out. My car is also lowered (to 25 at the fenders i think, and i just installed new plastic bushings).

So to those of you with SWB cars, how low can you go, and sill have reasonable camber, and very little toe out.

And Tom, if you are reading, i saw you and your newest steed today. Very nice looking. What engine do you have in there?

[ttweed]

Originally posted by studeb
And Tom, if you are reading, i saw you and your newest steed today. Very nice looking. What engine do you have in there?

The yellow car? It has a Honda 2-liter VTEC motor and 6-speed gearbox out of a wrecked S2000.

TT

[studeb]

Originally posted by ttweed
The yellow car? It has a Honda 2-liter VTEC motor and 6-speed gearbox out of a wrecked S2000.

TT

Yes it was yellow, going down the hill by SIO. i thought it might be you.

[Bobs 67S]

Hi Shawn, saw your question about a set-up for your 1967 911, here is the set-up fron my 1965 911. It was a compromize set for street use and weekends on the track.

The car has been driven from the mid USA to Riverside in California and east to Mosport. Both driven to and raced at the tracks. Brainerd is the home track and it holds a PCA time trial class record at 2:06, set in about 1994. Not that big a thing, the car has been one of the last of the shortwheel base cars to come out and play. :-( As a comparison the PCA club race 944 I cars are now running a lap in the 1:58's (midpack with the G class 911SC's).

The 6 x 15" Fuchs is about the widest that fits the narrow hips of the car. The front fender lip will have to be altered to about 1/4" deep for a portion of the opening (actually if looking at the drivers front wheel the only tire contact is at about the 10 to 11 o'clock position- passangers side is the 1 to 2 o'clock position) Turn the front wheels to almost full lock see where they will touch the fender on a bump rebound and roll/tap up the lip in that section.

The rear fenders will have the closest encounter at the rear of the tire (about the 1-2 o'clock position on the drivers side of the car and the 10-11 o'clock on the passengers side) roll or tap up the lip at that point. The rear track can be widend with the 1/4 " wheel spacers (use longer wheel studs, too). Look at the specs, the front track is wider than the rear. My 65 with non-vented rotors has been converted to vented rotors which increases the front track even wider.

Suspension
Lower the car to 24" at the rear fender opening and 24 1/4" at the front. If you lower the front too low, and have Koni shocks, they will bottom out and ruin the shock (they hammer the adjustment lugs - no more adjustments). A lowered front without raising the steering rack will induce bump steer. If you lower the rear too much the body will bottom out on the axels...say goodby to the CV joints.
Torsion Bars
Street and sport bars are 23mm front and 27mm rears. Race bars will go WAY bigger on the back.
Anti roll bars (sway bars)
Front 19mm adjustable, Rear 16mm adjustable. ( I had a better lap time in a race at Mid Ohio with the rear bar disconnected, and used a soft rear setting at Heartland)

Shocks
The stock Boge's with the uprated bars is a good soft/firm ride for the street. The Koni's even adjusted to the softest settings is a hard/bouncy street ride. For track, set the front Koni's to 1/2 turn off soft and the rears to a half turn from hard. (Your settings may very etc, etc.) Did you know that the heavy duty Koni rear shocks from the 69-71 cars bolts onto the early car?
Alignment
Front: 0 toe, 1 degree neg Camber, (try to get) 7 degrees caster. Don't forget to use outword pressure (preload) when measuring the toe.
Rear: Toe in 15 to 20 min. (18'), 1.5 degrees neg camber.
Track Alignment: more neg camber -1.5 front, -2 (or more) rear. The 65 doesn't have the rear ecentric holes for camber settings so the set is made by unbolting -stong arm the wheel - rebolt and take a reading- repeat till frustrated.
If you are autocrossing the car and the car is not going to be street driven a more aggressive toe to both front and back can be made (instant tire wear if driven in a straight line- diabolical handling at freeway speed, etc.) Corner balance (readings from the scales)
Front left 116, Front right 116, Rear left 213, rear right 205. LF and RR =321. RF and LR =329. A 2% diagonal difference. 36% weight front 64% rear - not very good, (car balance stock is 40-60). The addition of fiberglass bumper and duck tail and removal of the front 25lb weights shifts the balance to the rear.

The front fender lip at 24 1/4", rear fender lip at 24 "is a little low for street duty but you get use to driving out of driveways and over speed bumps at a diagonal.

The photo is of the car sandwiched between a 914-6 and a 944 entering the keyhole at Mid Ohio. Very fun.

If any one has different/better set-up let us know.
Bob

[Shawn]

Thank you Bob, for sharing you set up. That is very appreciated. You are now required to post more photos of that beautiful 65!

Shawn.

[ttweed]

Originally posted by Bobs 67S
The 6 x 15" Fuchs is about the widest that fits the narrow hips of the car.

Bob-
Your car looks very sweet. Thanks for posting the pic. We definitely want more!

I have found that 7x15" Fuchs and cookie cutters will work on the un-flared SWB cars, though, with 205/50 tires. You may have to roll the fender lips completely, from about 10-2 o'clock. My '67S has the ventilated rotors and the tire still clears everywhere, and the wider rims give better sidewall support to the 205s. All the other SWB cars in my club events are running this setup. I don't use a spacer in the rear, as it is very close clearance there.

TT