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Thread: How Rare (important) is a Match??

  1. #11

    Numbers Matching?

    U mean the engine number the Kardex says came with your car. Otherwise they won't, don't and can't match.

    I have to disagree with Jack...when an engine blew on an early 911 it was the very expense of rebuilding the orginal that caused an owner to buy a junk yard motor an put it in his 911. It was cheaper to swap it out, than rebuild.

    Ask Pwd72S what his car would be worth if he didn't have the orginal motor. Try 1/2. Orginality is very important in all areas of collecting. Heavy premiums are paid for pristine examples of orginal cars. The only exception to the rule is a limited edition, they have a high survival rate in pristine condition. They lose 1/2 their value if not in pristine condition. They are seen as being instant collectables and are kept NIB for the most part. I do not participate in that market, as I consider it to be a bogus market. Give me a good example of something that was meant to be used without thought of being something collectable. Thats where the money is, in collecting.
    Master of the Buffet

    Voice of Reasoned Conservatism

  2. #12
    Ahhh, youth! Wish I still had it! But at least, I have my mammari...er, memories Hell, I still have a '71 Pea-raid decal in a cigar box around here somewhere. Never could bring myself to put it on my car, for it's not year correct. But I did tie dye the T-shirt, which I also have, but can't wear anymore. (thinking of having ROTHSPORT drop a 3.6 in. ) All that said? I think it's kind of crazy, yet wonderful, that someone as young as Scott would take an interest in cars built a decade or more before he was born...
    Paul D. Early S Registry #8 - Cyclops Minister of West Coast Affairs
    "Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have the radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. 1973)

  3. #13
    Blessed be the lowered RickS's Avatar
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    Who says this has to be an 'all' or 'nothing' thing when it comes to matching numbers? My car has numberous modifications, but they are all reverseable. Engines can be swapped, wheels, suspension bits, and interior pieces. You can keep all the original stuff, not worry about blowing your original motor, and still enjoy a car which meets your needs for performace. When it comes time to sell to a purist, or if you want top $, put the original stuff back and move the performance parts to the 'new' one.

    My 0.2
    71 914 3.0, 82 SC, ESR 376, RG 307

    "The problem with the world is, the ignorant are cock-sure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertram Russell

  4. #14
    Greetings All,

    I will throw my opinions in since I own matching and non matching # cars. I think if we were talking about Big Block Corvettes matching numbers would be more important as the engine makes the car. Certainly a matching numbers Porsche is more desireable than a non matching car given the choice and I think it depends on the specific car. The matching engine is all part of the whole picture ie: wrong color, wrong interior, rust, needs work 71 T - Then who cares about the engine numbers, OR original paint, all paperwork, one owner 73S but decided to upgrade to 2.7 CIS in 1975 then....It makes a big difference on an original car like that. If you are building a Hot Rod who cares again, matching numbers will not save you much after you modify the car.

    If the case only has been changed and the proper year configuration is still maintained then most will view as acceptable. A good example of this is alot of 73 Carrera RS cars that you see today have had their engine cases replaced. These cars were raced and many of the original engines are long gone. If the MFI and the appearance of the engine is still intact most will find that not to be a big detrament to the car if all else is authentic and the car otherwise good. There are not alot of 73 RSs for sale at a given time and the condition of the rest of the car should prevail over a change in case #. I think with Porsches the rest of the car may be more important than the engine itself. You can not duplicate a Real R or RS but if you had the car you can duplicate the engine.
    Just my .04

    Best,

    Don

  5. #15
    If you convert a 911T into an RS...you have no collector value, you have a hot rod.

    If you have an RS with a changed motor...you have an average car, with average prices on the collectors market.

    If you have an all orginal RS...you have something rare since as Renneman said most have had cases swaped out, and desirable. When those 2 factors are put together you have something worth big bucks.

    No way around it orginal anything in collecting is the paramount. You can only be orginal once.
    Master of the Buffet

    Voice of Reasoned Conservatism

  6. #16
    Originally posted by tabs52
    Ask Pwd72S what his car would be worth
    pauls car is not as originnal as you think beacsue its rear fenders are rolled.

  7. #17
    That's true! My car is indeed a POS! Also, don't forget the ugly 7" wheels and the beefed suspension, the non USA style headlights, the front bumperettes removed, the non original stainless muffler, the thinning and flawed original paint, and those non original hydraulic tensioners. Why people tell me they'd like to buy it, I have no idea. They must be gluttons for punishment, like myself.
    Paul D. Early S Registry #8 - Cyclops Minister of West Coast Affairs
    "Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have the radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. 1973)

  8. #18
    my 71 S Targa has matching numbers according to the kardex.....
    ChadC
    71 911S Targa

  9. #19
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    I think in order to re-establish PWDs reputation we need to persude him that his non-original car is no longer worthy of his attentions and should be relegated to the ownership of a lesser man, I'll volunteer to look after it....

    Sorry, couldn't resist. Back to the topic, matching numbers, certainly over here are much less 'valuable' over here. I think somebody else has already mentionned that.

    Perhaps its because overall we have other things which need to be correct before the numbers matching appears on our radar, such as the lack of rust etc. The only time, IMHO, the matching becomes important is with concours cars or those whose provenance is important ot the history of Porsche. I'm sure that Ferry's RS with the motor he 'drove' is more valuable than with another RS engine.

  10. #20
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    Matching numbers increased the price of my '67 911S w/factory sunroof to well, well over 100k. It would have been half without them.

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