Restore to Original USA or Euro Standards?

[larry47us]

Originally posted by gruen911
Larry,
What exactly is the Euro approach you are refering to? I believe that the only differences between a 73E Euro 911 and a 73E US 911 when leaving the factory was the big rubber bumperettes and the gauges.

Gruen and others:

First of all, I appreciate the advice and suggestions. Your comments are all relevant. My interest is in having a car that is "original". What does that mean? I'm not really sure, since as I learn, my ideas and desires change. That is part of the evolutionary process that I am going through, and you are all part of it.

Regarding mechanicals. Yes, my car has had mechanical upgrades, Carerra tensioners, SS heat exchanges, etc etc. So, I guess that I am looking at the "cosmetic" things. My car, from the CofA, came with standard seats and no AC. I like the Sport Seats (which were an option) and my wife wants AC (I have no option). But there were two kinds of AC available, one that was using Behr vents (factory AC) and one using other aftermarket vents (dealer installed AC) That is my understanding of the difference. I am looking for the Behr vent system.

What kind of Euro items vs US items am I looking at?

Sealed Beam lights with Large Chrome Bezels vs H4's with narrow Chrome Bezels.

Ride Height - Higher like the US delivered machines, or lower like the Euro machines.

Bumperettes - only came on the US machines, not on the Euro ones.

I do understand that this is personal preference. But since I am new to the game, I was wondering what the "standard feelings" were on these items. Seems to me that nearly everyone is prompting me towards the Euro standard. And that ain't all bad. So far, one person said to me "The bumperettes say to everyone "It's a 73", as a badge of identity. One person said "extra protection for your hood" other than that, the views seem to be unanimous for the Euro view.

But I love the comments. Gives me something to do in the long months till my VGE gets delivered.

larry

[gruen911]

I have also seen the two different kinds of a/c underdash vent set-ups. I was under the impression that the different a/c set-ups were both post factory (i.e. dealer installed) options, and that the difference between them had to do with dealers/buyer having two different suppliers to choose from. I know that one was Behr but don't recall the name of the other. Anyone know what the correct a/c story was on the early 911s?

Larry,
We both forgot to mention that another difference in the Euro vs USA models was the turn signal colors. The front turn signal plastic on the Euro models were orange and white, wheras USA were just orange.

What kind of wheels did your 911E come with, Fuchs or cookie cutters? I believ the cookie cutters were standard, and the Fuchs were an upgrade option.
As for going with sport seats, it's a good idea. They just weigh a ton. The a/c weighs another 50lbs (to the tail end) and when running will suck 10-15 hp off your car' engine. What do you need it in Illinois for anyway: it's only really hot there maybe 25 days a year. Your effort and money should be focused on the heat....

[Rennman]

Greetings,

The reason you may see a/c parts ect. availible is most people take them out. Unfortunately you will be left with some holes in the tub to repair, which leads me to my question of why would you cut up a car today to install a system that really did not work well to begin with? Not a reversable "option" to add.

I beleive the systems were added here in the States anyway. I have a one previous owner 74 Carrera that had a system added. It was an American setup and not listed on the window sticker. I have since removed it. The added weight and sight of the condenser mounted to the ducktail made me cringe as did the cutting that was done to install it.

The main thing is do what you like. It is your car. Just my .06

Best,

Don

[CurtEgerer]

Re: ride height. This has been discussed and/or argued at length in previous threads here and on Pelican. I seem to recall that the ride height for early cars was the same in the US and Euro. It only increased on the US cars when the safety impact bumpers were introduced in 74 to meet US standards. Am I wrong on this?

[ckissick]

If you're thinking about resale value some day down the road, there are two reasons why this doesn't really matter so much.

1) Soon after you have the car in your garage, instead of the wrench's (yes, it will happen some day), you will come to the conclusion that you will NEVER sell the car. If you want something different, you'll just get it and have 2 P-cars.
2) If I'm wrong (see #1 above), the new owner will take delivery of the perfect American car and within a week it will have H4s, ride a little lower, the works.

But as the others here have said, only do easily reversible upgrades to the body. And remember, even a viper green coupe looks a little ho-hum with the American headlights. The H4s and a lower ride will give it just the attitude a vg car needs.

[Bobboloo]

I see two forces at work here. Originallity verses practicality.

First question. Will this be a concourse car? If not read on.

We all know that cars as delivered from Porsche didn't always follow the same pattern for a given year so in the originallity department you've got some leeway.
(example: a 71' 911 could have deep six or shallow six Fuchs)

You've already chosen sport seats (good choice in the practicality department) so I think the stone has already been cast.

I think the important thing is being period correct for period enjoyment. The time capsule approach that George is taking on his RS is great approach when you have more than one Porsche but if you've got only one car then I think the practicality part of the equation comes into play.

This is where I would choose H4's over the US sealed beams. This is also where I would go with the Prototipo because the stock wheel makes getting in and out of the car for me more difficult and I'm only 6' tall. Plus I've driven 911's with both wheels and I prefer the Prototipo.

On the bumperettes I would opt against them if I thought I wouldn't be parallel parking the car but that's probably not going to be the case. So here the bumperettes win in the originality and practicality department. If you don't like the look of the US only 73' black bumperettes you could go chrome since they would be euro correct and they stand taller in the front. (Hopefully they might just make it to the bottom of an SUV bumper.)

My personal choice in the A/C department would be to take the roof off voila instant A/C but the car is for both you guys so the Behr unit is a good choice. You can also improve on the A/C system with very good results.

Ride height. If Curt is correct then this isn't an issue.

When it's all said and done the condition of the car is the most important factor for your motoring enjoyment. Keeping it period correct is an added perk.

Enjoy!

[Jens]

I wrestled with this same idea this past year with very nice (but needing restoration) '60 Porsche Roadster 1600S. A very limited production number car. I wanted to do an RGruppe/Outlaw modified beast job on the car. Disc brakes, stiffer springs, big (well bigger) power, Through the hood fuel filler, louvred engine lid, color change.... I got sufficiently beat up by my 356 purist friends to not cut it up. A concours restoration would bring the car into the 85 - 92k dollar range and I wasn't prepared to do that, so it went to a new home.

I guess I've come to appreciate the stewardship aspect of being an old cars (especially Porsche) owner. I expect my cars to outlive me and fall into the hands of another good steward. There are still lots of non-permanent mods and performance upgrades to be done to early cars for the drivers pleasure and many "sports purposes" (racing) mods that are factory faithful and in fact in the factory books.

ps. here's a beauty!!

[Jens]

another shot.

[Jens]

again. (from a Pelican thread)

[larry47us]

Don:

You know, life is a compromise. My wife suffers from extreme heat sensitivity. She has also blessed my foray into Porscheland. So, it is hard for me to tell her to survive with the heat. I can see her now in my Targa, windows up, Targa top off, and A/C on. Hey, she's my wife, and you gotta love her!!!

Charlie:

I have no doubt that this car will never get sold!! You're right. Everyone that I have spoken with that has sold their first Pcar still regrets it. Don't know when or whether the second car will come around. G-d knows I am still waiting for my first!!

Gruen:

The car originally came with Cookie Cutters, but now it has a set of very original, very nice looking Fuchs. So, I am staying with those!!

Bobby:

I guess that my main concern is Period Correctness, rather than matching the CofA. I will probably show the car at a "Wash and Shine" (did I get that correct?), but this isn't a Concours machine. It will be DRIVEN!! And I understand in all of my emails about the A/C that it was originally a weak system. But I am putting a rotary compressor on it, and new hoses and couplings, so it should be as good as it can get. If it doesn't work, I will be really disappointed, having spent the extra money and put new holes in the car!!

To All:

Thanks for the comments. I really appreciated them. It helps cement my thoughts. For right now, it looks like H4's, Prototipo wheel, A/C, Euro ride height. But I will have to have a Chicago Mechanic to the height adjustment, since my wrench isn't comfortable with the corner balancing.

thanks

larry