RS For sale...

[racea911]

Rust never sleeps Don. That car of George's deserves a full restoration.

Am I crazy to think that the car in the auction could actually be a good deal for about $40k? That leaves about $40k to restore it doesn't it?

[D Moran]

First, start with an important lesson I learned from a top 911 restoration expert: there's an important distinction between (1) a real restoration, and (2) "fixing up" an old car.

I've also learned that it's virtuallly impossible to make an informed estimate of restoration costs for a car without careful due diligence and at least some partial diassembly.

Having said that, it's often possible to get part way there by by making some rough estimates and concluding that the restoration cost would be at least $xxx.

So with that preface, it strikes me that it wouldn't even be possible to "fix up" this poor car to a very low standard for less than $50,000.

To over generalize a bit, the market for most RS's in touring and converted lightweight configurations seems to range from roughly $70,000 to $120,000 or so, with more trades in the lower part of the range than the upper portion.

Since this car was built as a second series touring edition, my conclusion is that it would be uneconomic to buy it at the current eBay price of $35,000 or so. (And the economics obviously would be even worse if Rob is right and the motor is not original.)

Although the transaction volume is very thin, restored original lightweight cars are worth more, and sometimes considerably more. So, a lightweight car in similar condition might well be worth the asking price for this car, and, in fact, even more.

And having said all of that, sometimes other considerations trump simple economics. Sometimes a buyer with mechanical and/or restoration skills wants to pursue a project simply out of love for a hobby and quite rationally doesn't place an economic value on his time. And some cars are occasionally accorded higher values as a result of unique histories or colors (the latter being one of my weaknesses). Neither of those considerations seems relevant here.

Every car has a value. I'm just not convinced on this one at the current bid though.

[racea911]

The thing that has occurred to me as I have spent stupid money restoring and building T's and an S before I sold it. It costs just as much to correctly do the bodywork and paint on a T or an S or an RS. Doesn't it? Doesn't Gus charge the same amount to rebuild an RS pump as he does an S pump? Isn't the machine work the same price on a 7R RS case as it is on a 7R T case? Isn't $3000 for sport seats for a $30K 911S a bigger pill to swallow than $3000 for the same sport seats in a $90K RS?

It may not make much sense to restore this RS, but after the initial buy in, many costs should be the same as correctly restoring a much less worthy car. I'm just dreaming out loud.

[silver911]

Geogre,

Your car is great. If its roadworthy...althought with that rust who knows it would be great to see such an orignal car being driven.

I agree that a 911 shell costs the same to repair whether its a 74 911 or a 73 RSs series 1.My car will be getting new bodywork soon, if I can rationally work out the cash needed.


What bothers me is this 'odd engine number' business.

Am I too cynical to believe that anybody who has an RS sale would do a little research on what it is, and therefore discover a little bit of the importance these car have?

Once that's done its pretty clear that the matching numbers game has importance for these cars, or at least to have a correct spec' engine. If you don't is it genuine ignorance or deliberate ignorance....?

At that price its more a project car than an investment car...

[james]

wow, that must be one of the great 'barn find' stories around

[joelrkaplan]

George, that was a great read, thanks and keep the updates coming.....

[fg1227]

i had a friend go look at the car on sunday.he offered $40,000.they bs about the consignment stating that they would have to check with the owner,as it's a divorce.couldn't get a stright answer out of them.they implied that the reserve on e bay was over $50,000.needless to say i passed.the car needs everything

[Rennman]

I guess we should all start digging through our old leads on the RSs that we passed on. One comes to mind, an end of production Tourer that was wrecked in a race in Italy years back. I passed on that car for $20,000 5 years ago...........Now a bargain?? It is fun to dig up these crusty unrestored cars but you have to buy them really right to still wind up being in for too much!!

Best,

Don

[JCR]

In that case, the best way to buy this car is to let someone else restore it - then buy it during the next market downturn - fully restored - for $60K .

Frank, did your friend give an opinion on the originality of the motor?

[ckissick]

Great story, George. I can't come close, but I have a nice little story from the time I was restoring a '59 VW convertible. I needed original German bumpers, but for 2 years could only find cheap Brazilian reproductions that don't look correct. (This was before the internet.) There were old, dented, rusty German bumpers out there for hundreds of dollars, and I finally bought a rear bumper for $200 and then spent a lot more getting it straightened and chromed. But I still coudn't find a front bumper.

I went to an old VW mechanic to see if he had any old front bumpers lying around out back. He scratched his chin, and gave me the old, "sorry, man" look. Then he said, "Wait a minute there's a box up in the attic that might have a bumper in it. But I don't know, it's been up there for 30 years. Just a minute" He came back with this long skinny box with German writing barely showing through the dust. He opened it and took out a pristine front bumper. Like the day it left the factory. It even had a paper stamp on the inside that said, "Original Produkt". My heart was racing when I asked how much. (OK, it's not an RS, but this had been a long quest.) "Oh, I dunno", he said, "How about 50 bucks?"

The car went on to become a hundred point concourse car, and how I found the bumper is my favorite story. I used to make sure other enthusiasts would get down on their belly so they could crane their neck to see the "Original Produkt" sticker on the inside curve of the bumper. That simple little sticker somehow made the car special.