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Thread: Why R Gruppe? Why not RS Gruppe??

  1. #1

    Why R Gruppe? Why not RS Gruppe??

    I have been a subscriber to this board for a few years now. One thing I don't understand is why some of you guys out on the West coast who are committed to making clones out of your early 911's refer to yourselves as the "R Gruppe". Shouldn't you be the "RS" Gruppe? I say this only because the early SWB R's had their own look and 2.0 Litre, 906 cam twin plug set-ups. You guys are running ductails and 2.7's?
    I don't mean to raise any fuss, because a rose is still a rose by any other name, but the name seems to be a misnomer.

  2. #2
    Although not a member of the RGruppe, I know that there are plenty of narrow body cars with the proper attitude for inclusion in the philosophy of Rgruppe. It's not all RS. The 911R is making some big noise right now. Look for more of those type of clones, including mine.

    The Gruppe even has a 914/6 and a ccouple of midyear cars. I'd say barely a third of the cars are RS clones, if that. Don't forget about the real ones, though.

  3. #3
    Moderator Chuck Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Reseda, CA.

    That's' a good question... even though RS Gruppe doesn't flow off the tongue like just plain R Gruppe.

    Not to speak for the Gruppenmister or other founders ...
    Hey come to think of it, I was there at Muckinthaller Car Show in the beginning tooooo


    The R Gruppe was/is a GREAT idea...

    At the club's inception two of the main tenets was a loose adhering to the 69' factory Sport Purpose manual supplement ... AND ... kind-of-a Steve McQueen like attitude.

    Well, like you said, the supplement covers only 2 liter cars and Mr. McQueen's last early 911, that I know of, was only a 2.2...


    Also there in the same place and time was...
    The connection with our Gruppenmister Cris H.... even though he was driving his 69'-S... He and his brothers were known through a very nice article in Excellence about some really cool RS clones they had built and drove up in Northern CA.

    I think 2 years after that was the first R Gruppe Cambria meet...
    I'm proud to say I havn't missed one yet...

    The rest as they say is history...

    So... I would say that there has been a amalgam of real 'S' cars, hot rods, RS clones, outlaw 356's, and kind-a anything with 'right' look, history, and attitude...

    My car, for instance - is a matched numbered 73'-S with RS flares done 31 years ago, an OEM duck tail... and now a 2.7 RS matched number rebuild...

    Hey, what's in a name....

    What I'm looking forward to is see all the almost complete projects out there at the next R Gruppe meet... ST's, RSR's, R's and who-knows-what?... Man, finish'm up and bring'm out boys - I can wait to get a look.

    PS... Please forgive any inaccuracies in the RG history...

    Chuck Miller
    Creative Advisor/Message Board Moderator - Early 911S Registry #109
    R Gruppe #88

    TYP901 #62
    '73S cpe #1099 - Matched # 2.7/9.5 RS spec rebuild
    '67 Malibu 327 spt cpe - Period 350 Rebuild

    98 Chevy S-10 Utility
    15 GTI Commuter

  4. #4
    Blessed be the lowered RickS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Worshington State

    The Name Demystified

    The name R Gruppe was conceived by our Gruppenmister Cris H.... as a play on words. When he first welcomed me to the clan, he explained that it was a fun way or saying Our Group.

    R is the typical shorthand in German for Renn - or Race. You see it on lots of Hondas and the like, but the origin is German.

    Chris gets a tip of the hat for such a clever and appropriate name.
    71 914 3.0, 82 SC, ESR 376, RG 307

    "The problem with the world is, the ignorant are cock-sure and the intelligent are full of doubt." Bertram Russell

  5. #5
    Slow Out RSupdate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Surf City USA
    Great Post Chuck.....

    I guess in the short strokes of why we are "R Gruppe" is that it's a kind of mixed thing in the name itself...

    First, "R' represents the First letter of the word "Renn" which as we all know stands for "race" in German (or very close...) and then the USA slang we use thr "R" as a type of casual way to say "our". Now the word "gruppe" as we all know is readily translated to "group" in english, so in the traditionally casual RGruppe way we also use it as a way of reference to "our group"

    So in essance it's a double meaning:

    RGruppe - race group

    RGruppe - our group

    Now as far as to the accuracy of all of is, as far as I can remember...exactly what Herr Gruppmeister has explained to me....

    So any card carrying RGruppe 'bro's out there...pleeze feel free to update and/or correct me..
    Johnny Riz
    73E euro 3.2 w. a few goodies
    Rgrp 152
    S Reg 335

  6. #6

    Thumbs up R Gruppe


    You and I where both there when it started. Chuck, Rick, Zeke, and John you're all correct.
    The R Gruppe is the Hot Rod state of mind for the early 911 and 914-6, from 911S to RSR, 914-6 to 914GT and everything in between. If the car has the "ATTITUDE" and the owner dosen't, it is or could be an R Gruppe car.

    All the best!

    Roger Grago
    R Gruppe #27

  7. #7
    Roger, thanks for validating my comments. There are a couple of mid year cars, aren't there?

  8. #8

    Talking Mid year cars

    Hi Zeke,

    If you mean after 73 year cars, frankly I'm not sure if the ones you've seen in pictures from R Gruppe events are all members.
    Paul van der Linden is not a member with his 78 RSR/934 Turbo car but, his car definately has the right attitude. Mike Mascaro one of the founding members sold his 70 S to Freeman Thomas and now has a 74 Carrera.
    The foundation of the R Gruppe is 64 to 73 flat six powered Porsches with the Hot Rod attitude and not necessarily period correct or original. What is original is the execution of the Hot Rod ideas of what might have been.
    As ALWAYS, any Porsche with big or little attitude is welcome at R Gruppe events. If YOU have an attitude, either leave it at home or don't attend. I think by seeing all the pictures that have been posted on this board. You can see we do have fun!

    All the best!
    Roger Grago
    R Gruppe #27

  9. #9
    Time Bandit Jens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003

    many different cars

    It seems to me that there are no hard and fast rules as to what car might turn up in the hands of a Gruppe member. A lot of it is attitude and spirit of "Porsche Vehicles Used For Sports Purposes". The handbook of factory race options and modifications.

    It kind of harkens back to the old saying that says a true sports car has nothing on it that doesn't make it go faster.

    The spirit allows for all sorts of interpretations of sports purposes Porsches. I see similar spirit in most all of the fantastic cars that come out of the woodwork for the gatherings. Even the federalized 959 that Bruce C. brought to Monterey last year had plenty of RGruppe juice built into it. Of course there are understated and over muscled early Gruppe 911s that would surely give it a run.

    Mid year cars? There are more than a couple of '80s 911s backdated to the long hood early car's look, and at least one SC with a '74 Carrera RS 3.0 look.

    Zitronengelb R1012 the RatBasterd
    RGruppe #183

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