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Thread: What size ?

  1. #1
    Moderator Chuck Miller's Avatar
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    What size ?

    Can someone please look up what the diameter is of the front and rear torsion bars for a stock '67-S

    I'm at work and my references are at home...

    Thanks,
    Chuck Miller
    Creative Advisor/Message Board Moderator - Early 911S Registry #109
    R Gruppe #88

    TYP901 #62
    '73S cpe #1099 - Matched # 2.7/9.5 RS spec rebuild
    '67 Malibu 327 spt cpe - Period 350 Rebuild

    ’98 Chevy S-10 – Utility
    ’15 GTI – Commuter

  2. #2
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    19mm front
    23mm rear
    Andy

    Early 911S Reg #753
    R Gruppe #105

  3. #3
    Moderator Chuck Miller's Avatar
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    Thanks Andy,

    ... the same as stock for my '73
    Chuck Miller
    Creative Advisor/Message Board Moderator - Early 911S Registry #109
    R Gruppe #88

    TYP901 #62
    '73S cpe #1099 - Matched # 2.7/9.5 RS spec rebuild
    '67 Malibu 327 spt cpe - Period 350 Rebuild

    ’98 Chevy S-10 – Utility
    ’15 GTI – Commuter

  4. #4
    Righteous Indignation 70SATMan's Avatar
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    Dredged this up cause it brought up a question of mine. Did the T bar size increase for the RS or did it use the S sizes? I know the rear sway increased. Based on that increase I would tend to think that the torsion bar didn't increase. Also did the front sway increase too? Were there differences between the Tourings and the race prepped Lites?

    It's been a couple weeks since I looked at the new RS sight. How about a suggestion to add the spec differences that make the RS unique from her envious brothers?
    Michael
    “Electricity is really just organized lightning”

    -Dusty 70S Coupe
    -S Registry #586

  5. #5
    Moderator Chuck Miller's Avatar
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    Both T-bar and sway bar sizes were the same for the RST and the '73-S. And as far as I know the RSL were the same as well.

    T-Bars ... 19mm - F & 23mm - R

    Sway Bars... 15mm F&R ... there was an option for the RS's at 18mm F and 19mm R

    Only until you got to the RSR's did the spring and anti-sway rates change... even at that they were WAY soft compared to the spring and sway bar rates of today... That's why you see period pics of all those old 911 race cars pulling up (WAY UP!) their inside front wheels and burying their opposite rear. It seems that the spring/roll rate theory changed somewhere in the mid '80's and has just gotten heaver and more aggressive since.

    I run 21mm front and 26mm rear T-bars with 19mm F/R sway bars... It seems pretty good for my '73 street car that gets time trialed a few times a year.

    Cheers,
    Chuck Miller
    Creative Advisor/Message Board Moderator - Early 911S Registry #109
    R Gruppe #88

    TYP901 #62
    '73S cpe #1099 - Matched # 2.7/9.5 RS spec rebuild
    '67 Malibu 327 spt cpe - Period 350 Rebuild

    ’98 Chevy S-10 – Utility
    ’15 GTI – Commuter

  6. #6
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    Chuck,

    Then this eBay seller has a front RS sway bar, not the rear like is stated. Is that correct? Thanks.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2478495399
    Brian

    '71T
    R Gruppe #299

  7. #7
    Moderator Chuck Miller's Avatar
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    Brian,

    My '73 'spec' book says 18F/19R optional for RS

    The pic in the ad is a rear...

    I have also read that W.O.W. '74-'76 Carreras and early 3 liter Turbos have 18mm rear sway bars.

    At any rate, 'good' O.E. 18mm bars are not easy to find...

    Hope this helps,
    Chuck Miller
    Creative Advisor/Message Board Moderator - Early 911S Registry #109
    R Gruppe #88

    TYP901 #62
    '73S cpe #1099 - Matched # 2.7/9.5 RS spec rebuild
    '67 Malibu 327 spt cpe - Period 350 Rebuild

    ’98 Chevy S-10 – Utility
    ’15 GTI – Commuter

  8. #8
    Righteous Indignation 70SATMan's Avatar
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    Thanks Chuck. I'm starting with suspension/brakes on my car and was thinking that I might as well do the whole shebang while I'm rebushing everything.

    I imagine the shocks have more to do with adding harshness to the ride on Pcars rather than the T bars as long as I don't go crazy. Am I correct there? This is new territory for me.
    Michael
    “Electricity is really just organized lightning”

    -Dusty 70S Coupe
    -S Registry #586

  9. #9
    Moderator Chuck Miller's Avatar
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    Michael,

    Actually the 911 suspension is similar to other cars…

    The spring rate (torsion bars for our early cars) is still primary for ride, roll, pitch, and balance
    Then the compression and rebound rate of the shocks…
    Then the diagonal leverage of the sway (anti roll) bars…

    Like everything, it all works in concert for the overall balance of the car…

    After you figure out what you want and why …

    BTW, that means you want it to do something different then what it's already doing stock… which is already about 150% better then all the cars around you are doing.

    Take care of all the mechanical changes and upgrades (if needed); T-bars, sway bars, shocks, tie rod ends, bump steer kit, … whatever.
    Then figure out what tires you are going to run.
    Then set the ride height.
    Then the corner balance.
    Then finally the alignment.
    If any major (or sometime, minor) changes are made you must realign all over again.

    Again, I'm not sure what you're planning to do with your car … but what I do know is... you REALLY have to drive your butt off to out drive the potential of your 70-S just the way it rolled out of Germany.

    Good luck Michael, hope this helps

    Cheers,
    Chuck Miller
    Creative Advisor/Message Board Moderator - Early 911S Registry #109
    R Gruppe #88

    TYP901 #62
    '73S cpe #1099 - Matched # 2.7/9.5 RS spec rebuild
    '67 Malibu 327 spt cpe - Period 350 Rebuild

    ’98 Chevy S-10 – Utility
    ’15 GTI – Commuter

  10. #10
    Righteous Indignation 70SATMan's Avatar
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    You put it correctly Chuck. I want to drive my butt off! The car was tracked a bit by the PO now 20 years ago. I'll probably only DE the car and maybe occasional TT for fun but, that will be it. I do want to be able to really push the car though when the mood hits..

    The suspension changes (if any) would be mild upgrades. I plan on rebushing everything right off the bat while going to Alum trailing arms and possibly front member. I was only thinking of going up a size on T bars and sport shocks. I'm going to keep the stock 15mm sways until I had a chance to really drive it awhile. Since the only Pcars I've driven have been mostly tired T's, I don't have a sense of what this S will be able to do bone stock. I haven't even made up my mind yet on bushings, wether OEM or something stiffer.

    Man, I love the info on this board!!!
    Michael
    “Electricity is really just organized lightning”

    -Dusty 70S Coupe
    -S Registry #586

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