How can I put 911S brakes on my 67 911 normal?

[gruen911]

Shawn,
I went thru the same thing you are considering doing about 2 years ago. After a long search, I ended up buying an entire front suspension from an 78 911SC that had S alloy calipers and Bilsteins. Total price with shipping was about $800 and took about 2 hours to install.
You are way better off buying an entire front suspension than trying to fit the vented rotors and brakes onto your 67 normale. All 911 models had vented discs from 69-73. The only difference was that the 911S models came stock with the Lightweight alloy calipers, while the T and E came with the M calipers - which are just as good except a little heavier. Unless you are really touchy about saving a few lbs, your are better off finding a complete front suspension with M calipers off a 69-73 911T. Shouldn't cost you more than $300-400 and the entire suspension unit will bolt right on. Tryng to retrofit S calipers and vented discs on your normale will be a huge headache and will cost 2-3 times as much. Hope that helps.
Good luck

[larry47us]

Gruen:

So, the only difference between the S Brakes and the Normale Brakes are that the S calipers are lightweight? The brake pad surface is the same? The disk design is the same?

I had heard that the normale brake system is good, but that the S is sooo much better. If the only difference is that the calipers are heavier on the normale, it doesn't account for what I heard.

larry

[Shuie]

The vented rotors would be a bigger upgrade than the lightness of the calipers. The lightweight alloy calipers are very desirable and not cheap if you can find them in rebuildable condition. If you find a set of alloy S calipers, I've got a set of S rotors you can have if you cover the shipping. You can run even bigger slotted rotors if you go with a later Carrera caliper, but it would not be a huge benefit over the S (especially on a car as light as an early swb car). IIRC, The pad area of the S, SC A, and the later Carrera calipers are all the same, its the rotor thickness that differs

[gruen911]

Guys,
I'm not sure about whether there is a difference in rotor thickness between the heavier M and light alloy S rotors on the 1969-73 brakes. I never measured them. The most important aspect with the vented discs is that they stayed cooler under heavy usage. I don't necssarily know if a thicker disc equates to better braking, if thats why disc thickness is being questioned here?
Regardless, both the LWB M and S brake calipers used vented discs - while the SWB 911 non-911S brakes were not vented. Vented discs were standard on all early 911S models. The light alloy calipers weren't available on any early 911 until the 1969 911S.

[larry47us]

So that kind of begs the question. If all LWB brakes, both M and S are vented disks, what is the real difference between the M and S braking systems that makes the S so much better. Because just having an alloy caliper doesn't, in and of itself, create a better braking system.

Or is it a matter of state of mind, like "I run faster when I have new sneakers." or "my car runs better with a full tank of gas, or right after it's waxed."

and BTW, my car does always run better with a full tank!!

larry

[gruen911]

Larry,
The S alloy calipers are lighter, and it's all about horse power to weight...

[ttweed]

Sorry, I searched and cannot find the discussion that covered the conversion for swb non S 67/68 cars to S spec brakes. This can be done with early swb S brake calipers and rotors.

Shawn-

I only just now saw this thread. You are getting lots of advice about upgrading to the later S alloy brakes (or SC or Carrera), but from reading the sentence you wrote above, that doesn't seem to me to be what you are asking about. If, as I read it, you want to upgrade '67 Normal brakes to '67S brakes, there is no need for strut/suspension work at all. The only difference between the two was the vented rotor and a spacer which widened the caliper so that it fit around the thicker, vented rotor. Both calipers had the early 3" bolt spacing, which fits the early struts.

You can easily buy these parts new or rebuilt and bolt them on in a couple hours. Braking ability would not be improved with this upgrade except for superior heat dissipation from the vented rotors, as pad sizes and rotor diameters were the same. Unless you are running the car hard and experiencing brake fade, it will not be any better than your normal brakes. It's the tires that stop the car, anyhow, so it would be better to fit some 205s on it if you're running those skinny original tires.

HTH,
TT
ps- I am not going anywhere near Phoenix in the summertime. You need to come out here to the coast. July 24-25th at the Q -- be there!

[admin_old]

Just wanted to add some data.

S and A pads are larger in area than M pads. Besides the lighter weight and vented rotors, S brake pads, while having the same sillouette as A caliper pads, are also thicker - perhaps some advantage in reducing heat transfer to the caliper.

Not all '69 models had vented rotors. My '69T originally came with the smallish M calipers with solid rotors. One had to order the S calipers/rotors specifically (and other "S" equipment) when purchasing new.

Sherwood

[Shuie]

Sorry guys, I didn't intend to point anyone down a bad path. When I saw 'S-brakes' in the first post, I thought Shawn was talking about the desirable 3.5" alloy calipers.

So there is a '67 3" S-caliper which is not the same as a later 3.5" alloy S-caliper?

[ttweed]

So there is a '67 3" S-caliper which is not the same as a later 3.5" alloy S-caliper?

Yes, exactly. There was a SWB "S" caliper w/ 3" C-C ears. It is cast iron, not alloy, and is smaller than the later "S" caliper in pad area. It differed from the normal SWB 911 caliper only by splitting it apart and putting in a spacer to make it have a wider throat to fit the thicker rotor. The vented rotors are the same on the SWB & LWB early cars, though, at least in the front (the rears changed in '69).

You don't have anything to apologize for, though, Shuie, What Shawn wrote originally was a bit ambiguous and could be interpreted either way. It seemed to me that he was saying "upgrade my non-vented, solid rotor, SWB 911 front brakes to the vented rotor (but still SWB) brakes from the '67-68S". Only Shawn can clarify what he meant at this point, I think.