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Thread: But it not Big Brother - NOT!

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down But it not Big Brother - NOT!

    I saw this today:


    Insurance Cos. Try Out Auto Black Boxes

    52 minutes ago

    By MATTHEW FORDAHL, AP Technology Writer

    - For two months, Jacob Sevlie's insurance company tagged along whenever he slid behind the wheel of his Honda Accord.

    An electronic monitor the size of a matchbook closely tracked Sevlie's driving time and behavior. If he had a heavy foot or was a sudden braker, the auto data recorder would betray him.

    Disconnected from the car and hooked to a PC, the device relayed Sevlie's digital driving diary to his auto insurer, Progressive Corp., with the click of a mouse during a pilot program earlier this year.

    Although privacy advocates say the gadget smacks of Big Brother, Sevlie signed up and sent monthly data in hopes of saving money on his insurance bill. In return, he got a $25 stipend and the promise of a 15 percent rate cut when the program launches.

    Mayfield Village, Ohio-based Progressive is now promising discounts of up to 25 percent as it expands the so-called TripSense pilot program to 5,000 Minnesota customers. Sevlie, of Bloomington, Minn., is among them.

    Progressive says it will use the data only for potential discounts and not to penalize customers whose devices reveal risky driving habits.

    The monitoring has the potential to cascade through the insurance industry, said Charles Samuelson, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Minnesota.

    "What happens is Progressive does this and gets a little bit of market share growth because they've lowered prices. Then it gets copied by other insurance companies," he said. "Pretty soon you don't have any choice.

    "You have to surrender all that data to insurance companies or they won't insure you," he said.

    Company spokesman William Perry says use of the auto data recorder will not be mandatory for Progressive customers.

    "The key thing for us regarding the privacy aspect is the program is completely voluntary. It's not imposed on anybody," he said.

    Julie Rochman, spokeswoman of the American Insurance Association, denied suggestions that the entire industry would adopt the monitors.

    Most companies are comfortable with their current systems for measuring risk, which typically lump drivers into groups based on a variety of factors, she said.

    "The bottom line is this is interesting, and they'll watch it," she said. "I'm not aware of any rush to do this kind of thing."

    Drivers are under increased surveillance, by insurance companies and others. For example, cameras at intersections in many urban areas snap license-plate pictures of vehicles running red lights.

    Many automakers already install so-called black boxes that record information for investigations into a crash or malfunction, although the data are not routinely transmitted. Last month, federal safety officials called on all automakers to install such devices.

    From 1998 to 2001, Progressive ran a trial program in Texas that included a satellite tracking device to monitor where participants drove so they paid only for the insurance they used. The program was canceled because the gear was too expensive, the company said.

    Insurers abroad are trying the data recorders, too.

    In August, Norwich Union, the United Kingdom's largest auto insurer, announced it was testing a "pay as you drive" program involving 5,000 customers, under an agreement with Progressive. It tracks via satellite, like the Progressive program in Texas.

    Robert Ledger, the U.K. program's director, says interest has been phenomenal: "We could have filled the pilot twice over with the amount of requests we've had from interested motorists."

    Progressive's latest test in Minnesota, however, doesn't track where people drive. Sevlie said that would have been a show-stopper for him.

    "That would scare me," he said. "If they were to do something like that, I would probably not want to be involved."

    Progressive's Minnesota program requires a device that's plugged into a car's diagnostic port, available on all recent models. Besides driving habits, the device monitors when it's connected and disconnected so drivers aren't tempted to unplug it before speeding up to 100 mph. If a unit hasn't been connected 95 percent of the time, there's no discount.

    But critics fear the information _ or, worse, the lack of information from participants who don't want to send negative data _ might be used against them.

    And after the data are collected, individuals have no say in how it's used, Samuelson said.

    "Once you give them the data, they own it," he said. "They can sell that data to anybody they want to, and you have no claim on it."

    Perry, Progressive's spokesman, said the company will only use the data to determine discounts. It won't be used to increase rates if it reveals a customer with a lead foot, he said.

    "This is strictly a discount program. We're very upfront with how we will and will not use the data," he said. "The only way we will use it is to look at it and say, 'Based on this, we're going to take X percentage off of the cost of your insurance for that vehicle.' Period."

    And if the data is subpoenaed in legal action related to a driver's behavior?

    "Generally speaking, if we are subpoenaed, we comply with the law," Perry said.

    ___

    On the Net:

    Progressive TripSense: http://tripsense.progressive.com
    Harry

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  2. #2
    Blessed be the lowered RickS's Avatar
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    Unfreaking believable. Unfortunatley the box will not show seniors doing 20 MPH in a 35 zone, or other hair brain moves other people make and don't get registered.

    Talked to my insurance co today about homeowners insurance and putting a dog door in from backyard to the garage. First they wanted to know what kind of dog. If it's on their list, they will drop coverage. I told them it was a black lab mix. They asked if she was part pitbull, rotty, chow....... because they would have to cancel our insurance. She is part chow and the sweetest dog that would lick a burgler to death (but I doubt that is what they meant). I lied and told them I didn't know what, because she came from the pound (true). If they get that upset over potential on a mixed dog, you can only imagine what they will do catching people red handed accellerating and deaccelerating quickly. Wonder if I should buy stock in the company that sells the G-Tech pro?
    71 914 3.0, 82 SC, ESR 376, RG 307

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  3. #3

    Just about what I've been expecting...

    The funny thing about all this (actually it is irony of situation) is that those of us who read 1984 back in the day, thought that "Big Brother" would be some government plot that had us all shivering in fear.

    The truth is, that we are big brother. And most people are gobbling up all these new technologies with glee.

    Jol

  4. #4
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    Harry

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  5. #5
    Funny that it's not mentioned in their TV advertising, but ALL GM vehicles now contain "black box" data recorders...something to consider when thinking of a new 'Vette, eh? There is a move within the federal Government (DOT) to make such devices mandatory in ALL new vehicles sold in the USA...
    Paul D. Early S Registry #8 - Cyclops Minister of West Coast Affairs
    "Now, to put a water-cooled engine in the rear and to have the radiator in the front, that's not very intelligent." -Ferry Porsche (PANO, Oct. 1973)

  6. #6

    Disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by pwd72s
    Funny that it's not mentioned in their TV advertising, but ALL GM vehicles now contain "black box" data recorders...something to consider when thinking of a new 'Vette, eh? There is a move within the federal Government (DOT) to make such devices mandatory in ALL new vehicles sold in the USA...
    all the more reason to keep you old cars...
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    GONE...MANY, many great ones....

  7. #7
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    One of those GM black boxes was used to convict a driver this year in Quebec. It showed that he had his foot on the accelerator up to 0.2 seconds prior to the collision, etc.

    Tough to say which is worse: scary technology is scary, but dangerous drivers are maybe scarier...
    Early S Reg #675

  8. #8
    Senior Member tfmcmahon's Avatar
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    Thumbs up pogo

    Probably not too many remember the cartoon,but it is certainly appropriate.Thanks for the information, Harry! TFM
    Member:S Registry #864

  9. #9
    Harry:

    Pogo was my dad's favorite cartoon. Remember "Deck us all with Boston Charlie, swaller. dollar, cauliflower, alligaroo."

    I think that the comment on 1984 is appropos. It won't be the government that successfully delves into our privacy. Courts and citizen watchdog groups will prevent it. But the industrial complex -- Sure!!! Just give me a discount, or pay me $2 per week for the privilege of allowing you into my home/life.

    Yep, we'll allow 'em in OK. Then what do the rest of us do when 75% of the populace does it? Remember those free ATM's?? Oh, yah, they're now $2.50 per use (if it's not your bank). But we all use them.

    larry
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfmcmahon
    Probably not too many remember the cartoon,but it is certainly appropriate.Thanks for the information, Harry! TFM
    Man, now I feel old!

    I just find it distrubing that we are actively giving up our freedoms while elsewhere, people risk life and limb to have access to the same freedoms.
    Harry

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