What is a "LOVINGLY" Restored 911S Worth

[tabs52]

Now that I have some idea of what a full blown ground up restoration will cost (35K to 50K). The next question is will the car be worth what one puts into it? Can one expect to recoup the money if necessary? Remember this is or should be a nearly perfect car....(I am presuming that nothing in life can be exactly perfect). The second question is does the year of the 911S matter that much...say a 1967 vs a 1972, and in my case a 1969 911S?

[hoffman912]

Tabs,

a general rule when it comes to restoring a car is that you will put more into it than its worth. it is not likely that you will recoup that. even if you put it into some kind of climate controlled chamber and store it for 10s of years to gain more value, driving it everyonce in a while to make sure its in tip top performance.. (basically so its as it was the day you finished restoration), keeping in mind inflation over the 10s of years.. you probably woudnt break even. (unless the numbers of 911s goes down dramatically and demand goes alot greater.. (ie the speedster effect) it wont hit a speedster like phenominon imho, because people have taken care of 911S's, for the majority, since they were new... remember in the 70s the speedster was a cheep used porsche.. people beat on em. now they are in really high demand and there were fewer speedsters made than esses. 911s's have always been in demand and popular compared to the speedster.

another general rule is that originality will also factor into value. keeping it as original as possable, and or using oem parts will definitly boost value.. but to buy these parts in excellent condition if yours are bad, or if you do not have them, will cost a pretty penny...

as far as year goes, i would assume the 67 will be the most valuable/collectable. less number of cars, 1st year, only swb s..

but the other years have their advantages too.. like the 2.2, and the 2.4 (sorry guys cant remember which years had which.. 72 and 73? or did 70 start the 2.2?)

also another factor into value will be whether it has the original motor or not. if you notice the 356 crowd is big on having original motors in their cars.
when it comes to value with porsches one needs to look at what they have done, and what determines value in their cars.. the 356 registry has set a precidence for all vintage porsche owners to follow when it comes to value.

h


edit

also.. how much you will put into a car will depend on year.

ie.. front end suspension parts are nla or close to nla for swb cars. for example ball joints. they just became a little easier to get ahold of with a new supply found, but they will cost you $249 each! up until recently we had to worry about going with a later front end once our ball joints went out..

btw, for 69 up ball joints cost $52 at pelican..

[tabs52]

The value I am reaching for is the mid 40's...if I put 35K into a 1st class resto can I pull the mid 40's out of it to break even. I would think that it would because cars as well done would be far and few between....like Sammys 67....I waiting for my bubble to be burst with facts and figures. Then it would make more sense to take the SWB's advice and buy allready lovingly restored for say 35K...

Now as to the issue of years..they built more 67 911S's than anyother single year of production..I believe around 5000 cars...where all the other years were around 2100 or so for a combined totoal of around 15000 S cars.

The 67 S was probably the most balls to the wall raw car of the lot (it's them webers and no smog consideration)...but was a bit squirelly in the suspension....which was refined in the later years production. ...the soft window Targas are the primo one to get..even though the coupe is faster.

Few 68 S's are in the USA as they were not sold here...and the USA 68 is notorius for it's fking smog pump....

The 69 is the 1st of the LWB wt MFI cars and is only year of the 2.0 ltr..making it the rarest of all the S cars...ironically I seem to have seen quiet a few of these around..maybe I got them on the brain


The 70 and 71 bumped the motor to 2.2 Ltrs and the 2 years are nearly identical...great cars...

The 72 and 73 cars the motor was bumped to 2.4 ltrs and creats the most torque on the bottom end of any of the S cars along with the most HP...this is the most refined of the lot being the last of the early cars...and as such has a cachet among collectors something on the order of a 67 Corvette being the last of the midyears...

Now if I am not mistaken the 67's and 72/73's pull the most money....with that 67 Targa being in a class by itself...they were desirable way back in the mid 70's fer Gawds sake...the rest I think kinda are all lumped together as far as price goes...Now am I wrong...I just need some values put into place and we can go on with life....

[hoffman912]

ok.. well the numbers are a little off then (im not a 911 guy..)

but as a whole there were less swb cars (67) than lwb cars (69-73) which is the main factor point i was getting at as far as years.. and youre dead on about the targas.. especially the uber rare 67, 68L swt, 69 swt . also, like i said, the 67s started the whole craze.. so popularity is with that year... yeah the swb is more squirly, but we are talking about value, which reads to collectable, not necessarly driveable.. (besides the notoriety for being squirly and the rep it got makes it a little more desireable.. the wild horse you cant break.. everyone loves a bad boy)

thanks for the clarification on the 2.2 and 2.4

i still dont think you will break even. as i said you put more money into restroing than its worth in the end. you cant make money selling it after restoring it.. or even break even.

sammy is dead on. buy the best car you can afford, as it would cost you more to make a much lesser car as nice.

if your current car is a basket case, you can always keep it as body parts or sell the parts.

[nick-moss]

they built more 67 911S's than anyother single year of production..I believe around 5000 cars

Tabs, I disagree with that number. Going on the VINs its impossible to tell as the S and non-S used the same run of numbers, but according to the red book and Dr Johnson they only made 2178 S motors (901/02) in the 1967 MY for the Coupe and Targa. The red book also quotes 1823 S Coupes and 483 S Targas (which adds up to 2306 )

That said, it probably was the largest single production year for the S

[hdavis]

front end suspension parts are nla or close to nla for swb cars. for example ball joints. they just became a little easier to get ahold of with a new supply found, but they will cost you $249 each! up until recently we had to worry about going with a later front end once our ball joints went out..

Harry,

Could you please share your source for original SWB ball joints.

Thanks

[911s911rs]

Tabs,

to put it in a language you will understand (sarcastic):

(sing in the key of Tabs)

'Are you crazy, old, senile or just plain drunk? Nobody gets their money out of a restoration. Those who tell you they did are either one of the above, or lying.'

BTW, loved your:

It's now called the R Gruppe look

In ten years when everyone is bitching about those cars you can say you called it here first.

[tabs52]

Tabs

'Are you crazy, old, senile or just plain drunk?

All of the above...on occasion....

Ahhhh the R Gruppe little do they know just how much I love them....much like I love my pet dog....which I abuse everytime it cr@ps on my carpet....or howls incessantly about some bug crawling around in the back yard....

[911s911rs]

Tabs, I (for one) missed the sarcastic pseudo Neo-Con BS diatribe... don't let them get to you.

I expect that from what I have heard and read about [Steve McQueen or Tabs] I would have thought the guy was a dick if I had met him in person. Not that he would have cared....

[SandyI]

As the owner of a '69 911E, I have to say that '69 cars as a rule have some resale bias against them.

I was recently reading on the Pelican board where guys were raving about a '72T. My car with its stock MFI will drive as well (probably better) than a 72T. But dollar for dollar, I'll bet the '72T would have get a higher resale because of the 2.4.

As for your '69 S, it's a better car to drive than the '67 S. But the '67 is worth more on the open market. Go figure.

The bottom line is that you will not recoup your money on your loving restoration. But that shouldn't stop you.