Mystery 911

[Chuck Miller]

Our friend Frank Beck (Beck’s Independent Porsche Shop – Chandler AZ.) has come up with a very interesting and mysterious car… I’ll relay his e-mails and pics…

Frank to me...

Info as follows:
V.I.N. 119123557 (2 chassis #'s from the very last '69). Kardex shows Tangerine '69 911T with virtually no options.

Description as follows: 1970 911 coupe body with S auxiliary oil cooler system with original hard lines (impossible to install after car is built unless door jambs and rocker panels are completely removed), 8484 Metallic Blue original paint (door jamb plate confirms), tan leatherette, original tan carpets, 2.2S engine #6302248 (911/02), 5 speed #7100251, '70/'71 model sport seats, correct fog lights. There is no evidence of V.I.N. plate tampering or any body panel replacement.

I spoke to the Navy Officer who purchased the car in Italy as a 911S and imported it to the states in 1984. He knew of no pre existing modifications prior to purchase.
There you have it. Thanks in advance for your help.


Then he wrote….


Chuck,
I 'm forwarding an email that I've sent to PCNA after they sent me the wrong Kardex. The long and short of it is that I have a car with a V.I.N. that in NO WAY matches the Kardex. The bizarre thing is that the V.I.N. doesn't match the car either! (Indicates a 1969 911T- I assure you that this car is NOT a '69 T- no eng harness plug panel in forward eng bay, upper front strut mounting points different than '69, etc.)
This car appears to be a 1970 911S. My hunch is that it's a very late '69 that was built with '70 tooling and optioned out with S running gear (Rally cars were often ordered this way).

I've been exposed to quite a bit of 116 octane race fuel these days but I'm confident that it hasn't affected my brain yet. This is the kookiest thing that I've run across in a long time.
I'm not ready to post pics on the internet (no time to answer emails).
Any thoughts?

Best regards,
Frank Beck

Then finally…

Greetings Chuck,
I hope that you had a wonderful Christmas.

Back to my 911 dilemma I'm hoping you might help me with. Would you mind posting the scenario and pics? Registry people don't know me from Adam and I'm afraid that it wouldn't go very far if I brought it up. I would like to believe that PCNA is the final word but their info makes absolutely no sense. This is not a Holy Grail quest. I don't have delusions of having the 8th Porsche wonder of the world but quite frankly at this point the car is nothing but a collection of bits.
Here's what I know so far: A Navy officer imported the car from Italy in 1984 (I spoke to him). He installed the later "S" spoiler, '75 door mirror, performed rust repair and had the exterior painted. All other equipment was as delivered. He sold the car a couple of years ago. I apologize for the poor photo quality. I have not touched this car since taking possession of it several months ago.


Let’s see if we can help old Frank figure this one out …

[Chuck Miller]

... Franks pics

[Chuck Miller]

... and more

[Chuck Miller]

... and one more set

[raspy2point2]

The VIN# in the front trunk does not look orignal to me. It looks like it was added on top of the area. The area should have a rectangle shaped raised part of the trunk panel with the number stamped on it , then the area should lhave the same patina of paint condition as the rest of the trunk area, It clearly does not. Chris R- Gruppe#144

[911s911rs]

This looks/sounds familiar...

Remember 'Help with Funny VIN?'

I'd say,speaking from experience, that someone has played around with the car's VIN. It could well be an S, but it could be a T or it could be stolen or it could be... who knows?

That VIN plate certainly does not look legit.

[nick-moss]

As you say the V.I.N. 119123557 is right at the end of the 69 production run, but the engine #6302248 is right at the end of the 70 production run, which makes it rather unlikely that they were put together on the production line.

Althouth the VIN looks OK to me apart from the fact that the paint has been removed, its authenticity can be cheched by feeling underneath, its very difficult to get a smooth finish if the number is cut out and replaced.

At the risk of being shot down it looks to me like a 69T with a 70S motor fitted.....

[911s911rs]

I agree with Tabs and Nick

It could easily be a 1969 T with an S engine and that VIN plate could be real (the VIN indicates a Karmann built coupe).

It could also be stolen with a new VIN.

My bet, based on the oil cooler and stock-looking lines as well as the description of the wiring is that the car is a stolen 1970 S...

Also, blue must be the original color, and that paint (at least in the trunk) is surely original. This picture clearly shows the black factory overspray on the suspension mounting point:

[hoffman912]

look in the dash area by the radio to see what the vin is there, see if it matches up. Its behind lower dash padding. So you have to take off that padding first. many dont know to look there.. and if it was a stolen vehicle or a chop and rebuild deal.. i doubt they took care or knew of that vin location.

[nick-moss]

that paint (at least in the trunk) is surely original

Surely it should be black in the trunk on a 69 or 70 car?