911 & Porsche World

[Rick Cabell]

Chuck,
I am coming!

[silver911]

Jens,

getting decent 993/996 over here is not that expensive, the lowest RHD car with a reasonable mileage is around £30K, so call $50K.

However for that money you are getting a 40K miles car with a history.....and you need something in case it breaks.

What Autofarm are aiming at is the new car buyer...which in today's money is a £58K 997. Call that £105K
Consider the RS clone to be new car, at £35K for the work plus £15K for the base car, you are looking at a £50K ($90K) new car....that becomes interesting compared to a 997, which other than its added luxury items will not necessarily in this country anyway be any quicker and certainly not as 'entertaining' to drive.

A decent Rs would cost about £85+K....

And remember the RHD cars over here can get higher prices than a equivalent LHD model.

[Paul Schooley]

I picked up that issue of 911 and half of the early stuff is pretty much a copy of their '04 anniversary issue of the early 911...in fact, a couple of the pics are directly from the pullout that came with it. All in all, however, it's great to see stuff like this still out there. I would suggest that the information contained at the online forums like this one, for instance, offer way more information. The magazine articles are somewhat 'packaged up' for those that have no knowledge of the early 911 and not of great value to those already in the hobby.

[Jens]

Its a very different beast to those and they feel there is a market for these rebuilt 'real 911s' in the 993, 996 price bracket......

What did you mean by this? I must have missed the point, but it seems to equate the Autofarm rebuilt RS price to the current market value of the 993, 996 in the UK. ???

[Jens]

I happen to like what Autofarm is doing with these replicas. I just can't reconcile the cost. Hell, I can hardly believe the cost of Porsche work in LA!! Sheesh.



I think a nice '73 911T authentically converted to RS spec and bodywork would be a much more genuine feel...more right.

[silver911]

Guys remember one thing.
We live in a very different place than you.

1) Prices are much higher
2) Roads are by and large much 'slower' both in physical constraints as well as number of peolpe on them.
3) Disposable income rarely comes into it at this end of the market.

Let me expound a little on these.
Pirces of labour and parts are higher primarily because there is less demand. The are fewer cars full stop over here so fewer owners. What doesn't change is the amount of time needed to do the work. So we pay more.
Seconldy the roads. There seems to be a very strong market in the UK for cars that are very quick and nimble but not necessarily very fast. Look to the various Lotus (es) Elans, Elises and Exige. The primary focus of these cars is to be very quick on the 'roads' of this country. That they are also very good on the track is a bonus not a core value.

What does that tell us? TO me it says that driving on the roads and enjoying the longest drive is somehting to be appreciated. However there are other road users and legalspeed limits and so forht to be considered. So a car that can be driven at 'fun speeds' yet not flount the speed limit to obviously has a potentia market.

Finally disposable income. Over here a large percentage of new and nearly new cars are purchased by companies or leased by the same. SO if it costs $110k or $120k it makes little difference to the order.

So waht relevance does this have to these RS recreations. Well they cost a lot because a lot of work goes into them. The body is comprehensively restored and so on an so forth.
They are more fun to drive at our road speeds than a 993/996/997 whose very performance potential mitigates against them. Afterall the fact that a 997 can lap faster than a recent racer tells you a very sad story. At road legal speeds you are not going to be any where near the car's potential...so you will be impressed by other things...luxury and so on which may be better provided by other cars.

And finally the company car thing. If you are not payin for it directly out of your pocket, but have a budget allocation...does the extra cost matter?

And sorry Jens to confuse matters further. Pirces of 993s and 996s over here are really getting interesting.
The least expensive cars are down in the £23K range (that $40K) for high mileage (100K) and or LHS examples.
But a decent low mileage high spec Varioram 993 from 96 will cost you more like £35K ($63K).

A MK2 996 could be up in the £45K bracket ($81K)....

So the choice of a 'new' 911 at around £50K or a used 996 is pretty interesting and very much down to personal preference. An Porsche applicance (the 996 or the tempermental, challenging and ultimately rewarding original (the 911RS )

As for replicas/recreations etc I'm all in favour provided its clear that that's what it is....

[Jens]

Well, there aren't a lot of Autobahns in the US either. In fact some of us like to reduce the gearing for the acceleration gains, happily sacrificing high speed capability. It's such fun to spank someone in the corners too. (btw, that new Lotus smacks of a rebadged MR2 Toyota , and it's made and styled by Toyota, shud-d-d-der).

I knew vehicle costs were higher, but do they also whack you with registration, sales tax, and fuel taxes too?

I guess the price bracket has a much larger span than I would have thought. $40k to $110K is a wi-i-i-ide bracket!

As I've said, I like Autofarm's RS efforts. It is not too far removed from what a lot of us are doing; improving the performance of earlier cars and backdating newer cars to the classic look. I won't be building an RS clone anytime soon though. It's kind of been done to death.

Edit- having said that, my daily driver has RS 3.0 bodywork and a ducktail!

[Paul Schooley]

Seems to me you Brits have a tunnel that leads you to endless roads, some with almost endless speed limits. Myself, if I was in a position of affording a high priced toy car I'd go with the 997 over an Autofarm replicar (although if I was in that sort of position I'd have one of each ). At this point in time I love my old 71 911 RS wanabe to death and can't wait for the salt to come off our racetracks, errrrrr, roadways up here in da great white north (a colony of Britain). God bless the queen and Dianne's kids...hehe.

[songhoh]

Every day drive... 997.
Fun day drive...early 911.
Test my skill drive...SWB 911 on 4.5" rims.
All three for different moods. I stayed in Bath for a while so I understand the appeal of recreations. Autofarm's reputation is sterling. So is their judgement so there must be a market.
Time in United States, south Florida in particular, let's me see the endlessly straight roads. So a 997 is right for these. And the occational curve or two.
But if I want to drive and no one to impress but myself, SWB 911 gets the nod.
After all it's not how fast you go.. it's how you go fast.

[curtisaa]

I have read and looked over the Article in 911 & PW. I do agree that Autofarm has a very good rep for their quality of work. However, the RS clones they seem to be producing appear to be a bit "canned". Not there's anthing wrong with their efforts, but seems a bit redundant. If someone has ever attended the Rgruppe gatherings, like the Monterey event you will see that the "guyz" produce much more of a individual, and flavorful concept of the RS. IE...Freeman thomas' car. Albeit, I have not spoke to Freeman about his concept, IMHO, lightweight theme, flairs ( front OR back, or both), wider wheels and tyres,etc. Lots of the boyz here have gotten into the 3.6, 2.7 twin-plugged, and other powerful motors that really make these creations very unique. What really surprises me is that a shop here hasn't started doing the same thing. I think Dave B, TRE has done a few, but no one has really done it for "spec".