What brakes / front end for my R project ?

[e72phil]

Need some help deciding what to do on the front end of my R project car. Donor was a 66 car with solid discs all round and the A arm on one side is terrible.

I want to have ventilated discs up front and possibly bigger callipers. I am not so concerned about being totally "correct" for a real R. I just want to stop well.

Has been suggested I use a later SC front end complete. I plan to use the original 2 1/2/ turn stering rack though as I am sure I will need to ability to apply opposite lock quickly

Any advice or experiences on front end upgrades on any early car would be appreciated.

have posted a couple of pics of progress so far. This is definitely not one of those "weekend" projects for your early 911.

[Eric911S]

hello: What engine are you going to run in it? If you are going to use a little engine 2.0- 2.7 the sc brakes will work great for a track car. If you are going to put a bigger engine than those use Boxster or converted 944 turbo calipers. With the Boxster calipers or 944 calipers use the Carrara rotor. I would get air to the rotors as well. The struts for the bigger brakes either the Koni S , Bilstein or the Boge all with 3.5" bolt spacing for the caliper. I just sold a 69 T with a 3.0 twin plug, Weber carbed car with boxster front calipers and 944 Turbo rear calipers on a none flared car. Those brakes never faded on the track at all. Good luck in your project, hopefully I will get to do my 911R copy soon. Thanks Eric

[e72phil]

Eric,


just running a 2.0 litre for the moment until its all back on the road and then we can start playing with it some more.

Think I will go with the SC front end setup and see how that goes. what about the master cylinder ? I am told to upgrade to a bigger ATE unit.

[GreenT]

I've done this conversion and the the SC generation suspension and brakes are great under an early car, you'll love it. The SC brakes are beefier than the alloy 'S' calipers and will flex less under track conditions. I kept my original master cylinder and it's fine, but don't know if a '70 is the same as a '66. Do the rear with the aluminum trailing arms and adjustable spring plates and rear calipers too if you can. Use the SC factory sway bars on both ends. The picture here shows the Junkmeister sway bar still in the front, but when I did the rear over to SC as well I changed to the SC swaybars front and rear and the whole conversion makes for a very balanced car for both braking and handling. The factory sizes are fine on an early car. Hopefully you can find everything front and rear off the same donor car. The conversion is straightforward, especially in the front. In the back you have to be careful on the sway bar mounting points and be sure and go with the later gusseted type sway bar mounting plates. Don't know if you have Ace Hardware stores down under, but their John Deere spray can paint is an exact match for Bilstein green on the struts. Have fun, you'll like the end result -

[e72phil]

hi John,

thanks for all the advice and pics. Sounds like I will go the SC front end however, remember my '66 is a SWBcar so I have tracked down a set of steel rear arms and adjustable spring plates (as the car was originally converted to a LWB car with an IROC body kit when acquired it

Will decide if I need to change to vented rear discs as the car is ging to be very lightweight. It as all the right 'glass panels and we have cut off just about every tab, bracket etc that wont be needed. it will have plexiglass in most windows except frontscreen. I'm a bit worried about how light the front end will be because in its present state you can lift the front with one hand.

I guess a gas tank , gas and a battery will add to that though.

My car currently has a through body sway bar which I thought I would retain but will investigate your thoughts about the SC bars.

This is a fun project because you dont really have to chase down every little detail (the jewellry as some refer to it) to make it look right. After all these were race cars and meant to be a little rough.

For those interested, here's a pic of the car before we started work on it. beleive it or not there's a SWB '66 911 under there !

[Chuck Miller]

Phil,

Looks like you have quite a project ahead of you ... very cool

I switched to SC brakes years ago and love'm.... plus you'll probably be stopping about 400lbs less car.

Steel lines and agressive pads help as well.


Oh'yeah we took a ride awhile back... we stopped OK ae' mate?

Cheers,

[e72phil]

Hi Chuck,

yeah I remember that canyon run one evening. Your car stops VERY well. Maybe you can take Lisa on that run when we visit LA ??


She and I have booked our rooms at Ventura, she has a plane ticket, i am waiting to see if I have to go via Hong Kong on some other business but I'll get there for sure. Not sure who else is coming but we are hassling them to join in.

Yes, the little ole R project is certainly a handful. I really did think it would be easier and quicker than it is turning out. But its a fun thing and there's no rush. I am not going crazy about getting the right 7" wheels and stuff like that (yet !). No doubt GAF will present me with plenty of shopping opportunities for this car anyway.

Did you like the "before" shot of the car ? Some folks are asking "why'ed ya want to change it for anyway ??"

Hmmmmm......

Maybe the 11" rears were putting just a little strain on the old 901 g'box ?

whatever were people thinking back in the 70's and 80's updating all those beautiful old cars with wings and flares (RS's excepted).

Drugs I guess

Looking forward to making plans to catch up with you guys in September !

Cheers mate.

[Eric911S]

Phil: I use the 19mm master cylinder gives great pedal feel and it doesn't take a strong leg to stop it like the 23mm. I would keep the through the body front sway bar for sure, reacts better than the sc stock bar with all the rubber bushings. I install grease fittings to the Weltmeister bushing housing and bushing. I use a 90 degree type, grease when you hear the noise. On the rear of the short wheelbase car, I don't know if you can install the sc brakes. Others should be able to tell you. The rear swaybar Porsche mounts seem to break, even the new ones. I would make some out of 3.0mm material and weld them on (cheaper if you do it yourself). With the 2.0 engine try some short gears like A,F,M,S,X which you may have already. On the Weber carbs try 32mm Venturis,135 mains,180airs,F-3 emulsion. If you have any other questions just ask! This group of people are great for getting info from. Thanks Eric

[e72phil]

Thanks for all the suggesitons Eric, thats good info to file away. I am using the webers that were on the car and playing with the idea of using megaphones on the exhaust with (maybe) Supertraps to quieten it down a little).

Would love to get a shot of the car with flames coming out the exhaust

re the gearbox, it was done before I bought it but my mechanic mate, phil Hearn at Auto coupe in Melbourne, is going to "look upstairs" and see what he has hidden away in gear sets so maybe I can get a close ratio box to have some fun with.

Cheers.

[obrut]

hi phil

i'd avoid the supertrapps if i were you - i know some people like them but i've yet to see a 911 run well on them

i converted my stock leistritz muffler to rallye style last weekend - sounds and goes fantastic (and is stock quiet when the centre outlets are capped)

was hoping to dyno this weekend but ran out of time - maybe next weekend

i'll post some pics when i get a chance but is the by far the best (out of 4) muffler i've had on this car