69S-anyone see this one? thoughts?

[72targa]

This "car" is also listed in the old SOLD section...

http://www.911t.org/class/carsold/carsold.htm

[911scfanatic]

I find it interesting because it seems nice S examples have soared in price, but maybe S restoration projects are maybe going to stay realistic? I wish there were more recent examples of projects like this. With the right skills, patience and sweat equity maybe picking up a project is the way to end up with a nice S and save one at the same time. If projects like this were, let's say, below $8k then it's maybe a viable option? If you intend to keep it after your done, it may make some sense.

Any thoughts on this? Anybody see recent data points on reasonable S projects? After I finish my '72T project and get more restoration experience (and get the modification bug satisfied a bit), I've thought of picking up an S project...

[badbilly]

Yes, I agree, this is why I was so interested in this project. I want an early S. I cannot afford to dish out the going rate of $30-50,000 for one. I can do some mech. and resto. work myself, in fact in look forward to it, as a hobby. In the end I would have the finished product for much less. In this case, the engine and trans were not a problem. And I found a local expert in the body repair and paint. Even the cost up to that point was not a problem. I was just worried about reassembling something that I did not originally take apart. Also, I realize that it would still need everything redone like brakes, suspension, interior, etc. How to estimate what all that would cost? Several thousand, easily. Well now you are approaching that range of $30,000. So, no cost savings. Sigh...

[racea911]

This '69S was my car. It had been in storage for a couple of years, but ran (barely, smoked like crazy) when I bought it. If I remember correctly, I paid $6200 for it in '98 or '99. It was a complete, all numbers matching real S and I was very excited to restore it. It had New Mexico plates on it and had been in California for a few years. The rust that I could see before I bought it, seemed to be mainly surface. After purchase, I was looking through the stacks of receipts and found out it was originally purchased by a Doctor who taught at the University of Iowa...... hence the rust not being just surface on closer inspection.

I had the motor and trans rebuilt to stock specs by a great local builder who works at Aase Motors. He is one of the more popular Porsche builders for the POC and VARA racers. All machine work was done by Ollies and the throttle bodies were rebuilt by Eurometrix and the MFI pump was re-sealed and calibrated by Gus at Pacific.

I put about $9,000 into the motor and trans rebuilds. Of this amount, only $1750 was for labor. My mechanic is one of my best friends and he did the work "on the side" for me. Did I mention he is an early car fanatic but also builds $50,000 race motors for cars in the Grand Am series.

I started buying parts to replace the rusted areas and other misc parts here and there. I disassembled the car as carefully as I could and labelled everything as carefully as I could. I am not a pro, but this was my second 911 disassembly and I knew I had to put it all back together again.

At this point, the car was disassembled, the mechanicals were done, and I was into the car for about $18k. It was 2000, and my wife was pregnant with our first child. In the meantime, I had been autocrossing, my 1970 T and was becoming addicted to performance driving these cars, not doing "concours" restorations. The car sat and sat.

I wanted to save the car since it was a real S, but I figured I was in for $18k and it was going to take another $20k to finish it with the help of my friends in the assembly. I was going to be into the car for nearly $40k and these cars were only pulling $25-30k at that time.

I really wanted a dedicated track car at this time and I didn't want to do it to this car. Then in 2002 we had our 2nd child. I still wanted to "save" the S, but it was going to be along time before I could get to it and I still just really wanted to race. I was in for $18k and decided if I could just get $10k for it, that would be fine and someone else could put the $20k into it and have a $30k early S for $30k.

I placed the ad, and 12 hours later the car was sold and the money was in my account. I was glad that the car was going to be saved and relieved that I didn't have to do it anymore.

Would you save any money by buying this car for $12k and putting $20k into it? No, probably not. BUT...... you would know EVERYTHING had been done to it the right way because you would have been the one in charge of the restoration. And you would be saving an early S and if you wanted to... paying for the restoration over time instead of paying all at once for a completed car.

[911scfanatic]

Would you save any money by buying this car for $12k and putting $20k into it? No, probably not. BUT...... you would know EVERYTHING had been done to it the right way because you would have been the one in charge of the restoration. And you would be saving an early S and if you wanted to... paying for the restoration over time instead of paying all at once for a completed car.

...and that is really the key as I see it. Taking on the project and keeping the car when your done. You can't approach it to make money, and yet you don't want to throw money at something that'll be worth half as much as you put into it when you're done. You will end up knowing the car inside and out and you will know everything is perfect down to the last nut and bolt. A labor of love (and hate)...

[72targa]

This '69S was my car.

Neat story. What ever happened to the car?

[racea911]

Neat story. What ever happened to the car?

My 2nd hand understanding of this is:

I sold it to collector in Oregon who had an auto body guy on staff to restore and take care of his collection. Very soon after he got the car, he bought quite a few really low mile and/or really incredible condition early cars. There seemed to be one right after the other popping up on his website as new purchases. He had 356's and quite a few early 911S's etc. He got rid of all of his project cars and there were some 356's and 911's that were dumped. His website said he was no longer doing any restorations.

He listed the 69S for $12k to cover my original $10k and his $1500 transport fee. I believe he got $12k for it.

The next guy brought it back to So Cal about a year ago and is apparently trying to get $12k for it.

I lost $8k on the car but these other guys seem to be losing nothing on it.

The truth of the matter is I'm still a little bummed that I couldn't finish the project. I didn't punt it away because I felt it was hopeless. It just wasn't a viable project for me time-wise right now with 2 young kids. PLUS...... if I GET to take a weekend away from home to work on a project at my storage warehouse, I'd rather use that same time RACING a completed car.

I was going to get the car dipped and have a meticulous Porsche body guy in this area do all the body work. The quote was $15k for all body repair and paint.

The bottom line was I figured I was going to have $38k into it and it would be worth $30k. That's an $8k loss. So at the time, I figured I had $18k into it and selling it for $10k was an $8k loss. I was going to have to shell out alot more money and tons of time to lose the same $8k.

I was hoping that someone like this would buy the car. Read and see pictures of an incredible, mostly home restored 1974 Alfa GTV. If a guy can put this much love, money and time into an Alfa that is worth $15-20k at the most, this same level of craftsman should be able to do the same to my old '69S.

Go to the bottom of the pictures on the left and start when he just got the car. Everytime I look at this website, I get inspired to restore something.

http://www.alfarestore.com/index_splash.html

[MY911S]

Hi,

I have a crazy life and impossible schedule (I just came back from watching the shuttle launch---I work on the shuttle engines. Yaay Discovery!) and have been sooo busy for so many months but finally made some time to browse around the early 911 websites! I own the car now. I bought it from John Audette and felt the same way as Curt did when he bought the car. I still do, it is a terrific candidate for restoration. The extensive rust repair was not as bad and in a way was a good thing for me since it seemed to put off a lot of buyers. Anyway, I really would like to restore the car but have a greater need for the money for some other projects. We had a buyer for our second home which would have allowed me to feel more secure and pull the car from the market. Anyway, I know Joe is really interested in the car and I owe him some pics. There is another buyer that is ready to buy it but I would have to assemble the car to a rolling chassis. So the status right now is that the car is for sale but if I could somehow keep her would be great.

[badbilly]

Sent you a PM.

[jaudette3]

The description of my ownership of this car is correct. I had intended it as a project with my son, but after I bought it he graduated from college, got married, started a company, and had a baby (first grandson - yea!!!). So, he is more than a little busy.

The car deserves to be restored. It needs *everything*, except the engine and transmission, but it could be a nice car when done. I spoke with Joe on the phone at length about it the last night and I can summarize my thoughts about the car with one sentence: It needs everything but there are no fatal flaws.

I suspect that if someone is willing to put in part of the labor themselves, that effort along with appreciating values could result in a car worth more than the money spent. Having said that, I would still recommend that whoever takes on the project do so with the goal of building the car for themself. A labor of love, as someone has said.

John Audette
Bend, Oregon

'60 356B Super 90 Roadster
'64 356SC Sunroof Coupe
'70 911S (webers) Sunroof Coupe
'72 911S Targa
'73 911S Coupe (Andial 2.7)
'98 Carrera 2S