Garage Ceiling Height For A Lift

[jaudette3]

I know this has been discussed extensively here and on the BirdBoard. I've searched extensively on both and found a lot of information - unfortunately some of it conflicting. So I'm a little confused (which some say is a natural condition for me).

Anyway, I'm building a new house and we're on the section of the garage where I plan on installing a lift. Fortunately, we have a lot of flexibility in ceiling height without affecting the exterior of the house at all - the height will only affect a storage room above the garage.

I'd like to tap the considerable collective knowledge of this group to answer these questions:

(1) I've read that the minimum height is 10'6" and that 12' is ideal. Do those refer to ceiling height, or clearance height after factoring in the garage door opener? What is the ideal clearance height?

(2) Are side mount garage door openers practical?

(3) I know there are lifts designed to be simply racks for storage and that there are lifts designed for mechanical work. Why would I want a storage rack that wouldn't enable me to remove the wheels when I could get a mechanics rack that would enable me to work on the car and to stack cars?

(4) Dripping oil?

(4) Any pro's and con's of 2-post lifts vs. 4-post lifts?

(5) Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks for your help!

John Audette

[sithot]

This is one I've been studying. You can get drip pans in case your car's leak! (ahem..snicker)
The two post models are fine but since you really need to watch where you put the "feet" on a 911 I preferred this one. It was really to do double duty as a storage solution.
Two post lifts also require a "permanent" commitment as they are bolted down. Structural integrity (concrete depth) is also to be considered.

http://www.rotarylift.com/products/revolution/

Tom

[tfiv]

John, I'm working on a garage expansion plan, and found good information on Rotary's website. www.rotarylift.com Regards, Tom

[reed]

I did a fair amount of research on this before buying a lift last year. My thoughts:

A four-post lift gave me considerably more peace-of-mind since it is inherently more stable than a two-post. Also, a four-post is fairly easy to move if necessary.

For new construction I would definitely want ceiling height of at least 12'. In my case I went with 14' in case I ever want to mount something like lighting above.

I went with a Rotary four-post lift. They are a bit more expensive than some of the others but not so much that it was prohibitive.

Go with a 220v unit. They don't cost any more than a 110v and its cuts the lifting time by more than half.

The drip pans are effective, inexpensive, light and easy to remove.

For long-term storage I wanted to have the suspension loaded. If you're going to store a car on top, I don't think you want the suspension dropped as with a two-post.

For the times when I want to remove a wheel while a car is on the lift I use a bottle jack.

If you do go with a four-post lift, get the extended ramps. You'll need them for anything resembling sports car ground clearance.

[letsrollbabe]

I have the Rotary Asymmetrical 2 post lift in my shop, and I love it. The asymmetrical feature allows you to be able to open the doors of the car while on the lift, which one does often when restoring a car, or doing work on the interior. Mine is rated for 9k or 10k lbs and requires a 12' ceiling area where the posts sit. The garage door opening shouldn't be a problem as the door tracks only go 8-9' into the garage from the door opening. Usually the lift is far enough from the door opening so that interference is not a problem. The 12' high ceiling allows you to work under the car without stooping over much, unless you are over 6' tall. And the 2 post setup allows access to the wheels and suspension, which is where we do much work on these cars. It makes work on these cars, either maintenance or restoration, SO MUCH EASIER It saves a lot of back aches, and allows you to get at every section of the car at a good working height. The Rotary is one of the best on the market. Mine cost around $3250 installed. It requires 220 volt power to run the hydraulic pump. Once you have one of these, there is no going back to jack stands.

Gib Bosworth
R Gruppe #18
Early S Reg. #434

[letsrollbabe]

I forgot to mention that you do need approx. 6" deep concrete (roughly 2' x 2') where the posts are located in the floor, and the posts are bolted to the floor by drilling and then driving studs into the concrete. The feet are then secured with nuts. It is an easy installation, and the guys installing mine took only around 2 hours to get the job done. (I had the power connection in place before they started). If you ever want to remove the lift, simply remove the nuts and the studs are driven through the concrete, as they drill through the concrete initially. The holes are then plugged...no big deal.

If you want to do work on your 911, the 2 post lift is the only way to go. It is no problem storing a car beneath the car on the lift. Also, for long term storage, the tires are not getting flat spots, and there is no down side to letting the suspension hang that I know of.

Gib Bosworth

[jaudette3]

Here's a summary of what I have found out about garage lifts for enthusiasts. I've also posted this to the 356 Registry Talk List as I received a lot of input from that group as well.

TYPES:

(1) Scissors Lift
For working on a car, not for storage. I didn't look into these much since I need to stack cars.

(2) Single Post Side Lift
Primarily for stacking one car above another. Bend Pak makes a good looking one that the various auto enthusiasts boards online seem to like. Pretty cool if all you want to do is stack cars.

(3) Two Post List: Symmetric & Asymmetric
Two post lifts use arms for lifting, as opposed to drive-on ramps. There is more load on each post then with a four post lift and it's recommended that the concrete floor it's mounted on is at least 6" thick to support the load, or that steel plates are used to distribute the load. Ones with connector across the top typically need 12' of clearance - can put connectors across the bottom but then need to drive over them.

Pro's:
- The arms free the wheels which facilitates working on the car.
- With an asymmetric lift you can open the doors while working on the car.

Con's:
- Bolted in and non-movable.
- More load on each post. Most recommend at least 6" of concrete or steel plates to spread load.
- It takes more time to position the car on the lift as opposing to drive-on ramps.
- When using for stacking the suspension is unloaded which some feel to be a negative for long-term storage.

One 356er has has come up with an inventive idea to neutralize the last two negatives. He is fabricating two strips of channel with spigots in each end that plug into the lifting pad points which will allow him to drive on to the channel and lift the car by the wheels.

(4) Four Post Lift

Pro's:
- Easy to drive on and off without having to adjust arms.
- Car is stored with suspension loaded.
- Less weight on each arm - most say 4" concrete is adequate.
- Can use drip pans to protect the car underneath.
- Can install casters and move around.
- Can install casters and move around (really nice for moving outdoors to clean the undercarriage).

Con's:
- Can't work on wheels, brakes etc. as they are not lifted off the ground. There is a rolling jack platform that can be used with a floor jack however.

POWER

Most lifts have an option of using 110-volt or 220-volt. The difference is that 220 will power a larger motor which decreased lifting time. Most seem to be of the opinion that motors driven by 110 or more than adequate for the home enthusiast.

CEILING HEIGHT REQUIRED

A lot of opinions there, but the consensus seems to be that 10'6" is minimum in order to stack Porsches and that 12' is ideal. The two post lifts with cross-overs on the top require closer to 13', but the cross-overs can be installed at the bottom if you don't mind driving over them.

Don't forget that the garage door opener will reduce overhead clearance. There are a couple of ways to handle this however. Wayne-Dalton was recommended a few times. They make a pretty cool central drive garage door opening unit called the IDrive that mounts on the header in the front instead of overhead. There is also at least one company that makes side-mount openers.

SOME BRANDS THAT CAME UP OFTEN

- Bend Pak
- Harbor Freight
- Eagle
- Rotary Lift
- Nussbaum
- Backyard Buddy

I'm told that the majority of lifts are made in China and imported into the U.S. (surprise!) by the boatload. They are powder coated in the U.S. which qualifies (more than 10% done in U.S.) them to be branded as U.S. made. These are sold under many brands. Delivery times can be long - many have mentioned that Harbor Freight is on more or less permanent back-order.

MY CHOICE

A number of lifts were recommend. Richard Griot, owner of Griot's Garage, highly recommends Nussbaum lifts that are made in Germany and are of high quality. Rotary Lifts also received a number of recommendations. One highly member of the 356 community has compared many of them side by side and he chose Backyard Buddy. In his words:

"We had the opportunity to see and touch several brands of 4-post lifts at last summers Street Rod Nationals. All had a car on the lifts for demo and many seemed to be shaky. The Back Yard Buddy 4 post lift has nylon slides and is very stable when loaded. It is several hundred dollars more but the quality is obvious. We also bought the wheel kit. It allows us to move the lift outdoors easily and the wheels are easy to store. We had our drip pans fabricated locally. BYB offers a rolling jack plate, and we also bought it."

These are made in Ohio and they cost more than many of the other lifts. After looking at all of the above (and more) I've ordered the Backyard Buddy Four Post Extended Height lift (despite the goofy name). Delivery time is 10 weeks.

Thanks to everyone who provided input, I hope that helps.

John Audette

[210bhp]

You overlooked a powered fork type lift like mine. Stack two cars. Work on a car with doors open or closed. Move the lifted car around your garage. Works off mains or rechrgeable battery pack so you can use it anywhere. Take it with you if you move house. No bolting to the floor. Lifts 3 tonnes. Cheaper than most two or four post lifts. Marvellous piece of kit.
Regards
Mike

[jaudette3]

Ummm...

I'm picturing myself driving around with one on my Porsches hanging on a fork lift. Now that is scary! I think I'd rather referee the Super Bowl.

I would like to see a picture of your setup though.

John Audette

[racemor]

Thanks for putting this thread together John. I'm in the same boat, getting ready to build a detatched garage and had put up a post on Pelican about ceiling height. But you and the others have followed through with a lot of good and helpful info.