Very early 911 found

[marinmcgreevy]

Hi all,

I have just joined the group. I just brought home a (I believe) a 1965 911. I am new to these older 911s. I am in the assesment mode and trying to figure out what the car is and what I have. I have lots of questions and I hope some the experience on this Board can offer some help.

I am trying to figure out what kind of engine and transmission the car has.

Chassis Number 301803. 803 is stamped on the doors. Also, 803 is written in grease pencil on the underside of the interior door caps.
Paint Code 6410

Motor Serial Number: 6300965

Where is the Engine type shown on the engine? According to some on the Pelican site, the above motor serial number corresponds to a 1970 S motor. The case has 901.101.102.2R cast into it just above the oil return tubes. On the heads the number cast in is 901.105.1110R.

The transmission has the number 161811 stamped into the case on the bottom rib at the bellhousing. The car has a 5 speed shift knob but I could not feel first gear in the usual location or any reverse lock out. Where should I look for the transmission type to determine what it is? Does a four speed look different from a five speed from the outside?

The car appears to have an original equipment AC system by looking at original 1965 parts books. It also has a gas heater and electric sunroof.

The car has been driven 36 miles since 1989. Those 36 miles occured when the previous owner drove the car home when he bought the car. The owner before that evidently did not drive the car and during his ownership the car sat outside and water got into the inside. During this period somwhat took an axe to the engine cover! Thus there is some rust in the pan under the original rubber mats (looks like two perforations at the low points). The front pan and the gas tank support has significant rust. So much that at some point a fabricated steel reinforcement was fabricated to tie the front torsion bar attachements together. Both of these pieces will need to be replaced. Again, these were caused by water sitting on the inside. There is no corrosion originating from the outside.

Any and all help on identifying the components on the car would be greatly appreciated. I plan on posting photos on this site as I go through the car.



Evan Mcgreevy
Mill Valley, California

[marinmcgreevy]

more photos

[gulf908]

Evan,

Welcome to the Board.Don't be afraid to ask questions as there is lots of experience here of the 'been there - done that - got the bills/busted knuckles ' type.
Too many of the very early 901/911s have gone to the dump,so the surviving ones need as much help as you can give.
Looks like the bodywork is all there although you seem to have a challenge in the bodywork department !
I don't recall that the 65 or 66 911s ever had the option of a 4 speed trans although this could have been installed later as a replacement.
The Aircon would have been a dealer installed option,maybe a Delanaire or Arctic Kool,but it would not have been an integrated unit.
Keep us posted with pics pls.

Cheers,
Dennis.

[glaverbel911]

Dolphin grey,,, what an awesome rare color!!! There are a number of board members who would love to relieve you of those rear bumper mouldings for there early S.
Regards,, Robert.

[dhopkins]

Welcome! Nice project car. It would give you many hours of enjoyment. Congrats!


don
------------------------------------------
1963 356B Super
1969 911S
1981 911SC
2001 C320 (wife's car)

[Eade Hopkinson]

I have number 300221, built on 12/22/64. My engine number is 900342, and trans number is 100254, both on the COA. Your car is an early 65 from the serial number. Is vin plate up by the smugglers box, next to the chassis number stamped into the body, or down in the normal place? Do you have 4 screws holding your grilles in the front or 2? How does your gas door open, the normal pull type, or do you have a push type, (very early cars have that)? Is your window washer bag located inside the right front fender up about as far as the smugglers box from the front of the car, or is it down in front? Is the rubber on the deck lid mounted in the normal place, or on the underside of the deck lid itself, again, real early cars had this also. Is the deck lid grill flush with the deck, or does it stick up just a little bit. Look at the window frame on the doors where it meets the top of the doors at the back, by the locks. Does the chrome kind of widen out right as it touchs the top of the door. Very early cars had this also, very rare. The real early steering wheels were wood, and you can see aluminium all around the inside and outside sandwiched by the wood. Later wheels are all wood showing. Very cool find must be saved

[marinmcgreevy]

Eade,

The car has the 4 screw grills. The windshield washer filler is up near the smugglers box. The VIN tag is right above the vin stamping on the body, right below the smugglers box cover. I will go out and check for the other things. The car has an aftermarket steering wheel.

[70SATMan]

Yep, Correct 70S engine SN. It's an early engine for 70S also. My 1/70 70S has engine 987.

Does the engine have the original MFI or carbs? I'd be happy to take those non correct rear bumperettes and bumper trim off your hands. Heck I even have a correct set of chrome bumperettes to trade ya. Oh, I'd probably take the engine too. I'm just a short drive away!

That is one of my favorite SWB colors. Cool find!

[NeunElf]

... Is vin plate up by the smugglers box, next to the chassis number stamped into the body, or down in the normal place? Do you have 4 screws holding your grilles in the front or 2? How does your gas door open, the normal pull type, or do you have a push type, (very early cars have that)? Is your window washer bag located inside the right front fender up about as far as the smugglers box from the front of the car, or is it down in front? Is the rubber on the deck lid mounted in the normal place, or on the underside of the deck lid itself, again, real early cars had this also. Is the deck lid grill flush with the deck, or does it stick up just a little bit. Look at the window frame on the doors where it meets the top of the doors at the back, by the locks. Does the chrome kind of widen out right as it touchs the top of the door. Very early cars had this also, very rare. The real early steering wheels were wood, and you can see aluminium all around the inside and outside sandwiched by the wood. Later wheels are all wood showing. Very cool find must be saved

I have 301382 (delivered 21 June 1965 in Wiesbaden)--the delivery date indicates my car is quite near the end of the '65 model year. My transmission & engine numbers aren't handy.

I have the washer bottle in the right fender and the chassis number stamped near the lid for the gas heater, etc.

My gas release is the normal little knob you pull, located in the vicinity of the headlight switch (I thought the really, really early cars had a loop to pull under the dash).

Those brass four-screw horn grills lasted nearly halfway through the '66 model year--they aren't a discriminator.

My car also has widened metal at the bottom of the rear upright of the window frame. Those window frames are also brass--which I believe was used through at least '67.

There are three easy discriminators between '65 and '66 in the interior:

1. 'on a '66 the bottom dash [knee] pad wraps around the sides of the dash--on a '65 it's just on the bottom.

2. '65s have a leather gearshift lever boot. '66s have a rubber boot.

3. '65s have a wood veneer [seems to be mahogany] on some sort of plastic backing for the wood strip on the dash. '66s have a thin piece of wood [reputed to be teak?] in an aluminum channel.

[glaverbel911]

The early fill type release was abondoned very early into production... Its really quite a unique and interesting assembly located in the door post.. Allmost homemade... You get the impression the engineers forgot all about this little detail.
Eade,,, you forgot to mention the front chrome horn bumperettes with vent hole at the top, rare to find,,label indents in the rear , heat exchangers!!!! and if your really picky,,, alot of the chassis stamping is slightly different, especially in the front trunk area of a 64' compared to mid 65'.
One thing I allways liked was the front trunk carpeting in my 64'.. It was a nice quality looking piece with a binding and backing compared to the later perlon style.
The early original nonflared cars are my favorites in styling design. Its such a clean looking car.

Robert