'Glass Dreams

[Paul Schooley]

Anyone BTDT with a full compliment of 'glass body panels on a lightweight project? I'm especially curious about the bonding process between the rear quarters and the steel. I'm looking at putting together a second car that explores weight reduction to the max (cutting out the big macs myself too ) and a high hp driveline all with coil overs possibly. I'm curious as to which mfg makes the best fitting panels as well. Needless to say I'm also concerned about correct installation to avoid cracking which I understand to be an issue if done incorrectly. Any advice would be appreciated.

I'm also curious about the aluminum banana arms. Are there any mods required to these when used on a 70 chassis? Anyone with experience doing custom suspension that could warn me of the pitfalls to avoid?

[lkadams]

Ah Paul, you're giving me thoughts of that silver/carbon fiber early 911 from Quebec that was in Excellence a couple of years ago....

-Keith

[ttweed]

Anyone BTDT with a full compliment of 'glass body panels on a lightweight project? I'm especially curious about the bonding process between the rear quarters and the steel.

Paul-
There are a LOT of posts on PP 911 Tech forum about this. Try a search on "bonding flares" there and you will turn up more than you want to know. Try this thread for starters.

high hp driveline all with coil overs possibly

You're really looking to thin out your wallet, eh? From what I remember, the shock tower redesign on the 911 tub in 1972 made the coilover mod much easier. It can be done on a '70, it's just a bit more difficult. Remember that the tub was not designed to take the stress at the top of the shock towers from the spring loads, this was done by the torsion bars in the original design. I would not convert to coilover without appropriate reinforcements to the tub.

which mfg makes the best fitting panels as well

There is much debate about this, but I think M.A. Shaw gets the nod, although there are going to be fitting issues with any molded FRP pieces. The tolerances of molding glass compared to stamping steel pieces will never be the same, plus there are shrinkage as well as expansion and contraction issues, etc.

I'm also curious about the aluminum banana arms. Are there any mods required to these when used on a 70 chassis? Anyone with experience doing custom suspension that could warn me of the pitfalls to avoid?

Search as per above on "alloy trailing arms." You will turn up results like this thread. There are a few issues, but not insurmountable.

TT

[sithot]

My undestanding is that Getty Design does a good job. Tom Bobbitt (PCA pres.) had a car that was pretty much all glass from GT Racing. There's a picture of it on the cover of their catalog. I never saw it but discussed it with him at dinner a few years ago. It was a full time track car.

Tom

[37yrold911]

Pushing the envelope on this will get very expensive.

I have compiled most of what has been done at the Rgruppe web site and Thom posted my tables at his web site RennLite.com or is it Rennlight?

Do some searches on Pelican where a lot of this stuff is documented.

The best magazine article is the one on Jim Calzia's car - I compared that and Grant G's CF car (referenced above) in one of the tables - also includes factory efforts.

There are literally hundreds of things to be done to reduce wt. on these cars. You could probably get it down into the 1600 lb. range if you got real serious about forging your way into new territory... it will not be something for the street tho.

[Paul Schooley]

My target is a lightweight street car. It will keep the steel doors for obvious reasons, but I'm looking at all other areas including, of course, plexi glass where possible. Another thing I was looking for was a CF dashboard rather than the usual stuff. It's gonna take me a year to afford all the 'glass parts.

[37yrold911]

Ok, in that case, here is what you wanna do - or at least get started with - re the body work.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...rgruppe+boring

THe CF dash is of no real wt. value. Always consider the effects of the wt. loss - evaluate pitch, yaw & roll.

Put the Al arms on the rear. I went backwards in time (& strength) to the lighter type 911 trans.

[911scfanatic]

Getty and MA Shaw are the same.
I'm placing an order with them for fenders, rear bumper and decklid shortly. I already have f/g hood and front bumper. I wanted to stick with steel flares in the back--don't know what my hang up is, just don't like the idea of bonding f/g to metal.
You can call Jerry at EuroEast if you want to get in on the Getty/MA Shaw order, which should be discounted a decent amount. Jerry also has a car he bonded f/g flares to the quarters. You could lift the tub up by the f/g flares the bond was so strong.

[racemor]

My undestanding is that Getty Design does a good job. Tom Bobbitt (PCA pres.) had a car that was pretty much all glass from GT Racing. There's a picture of it on the cover of their catalog. I never saw it but discussed it with him at dinner a few years ago. It was a full time track car.

Tom

Tom, is this the car? It is for sale locally at Exclusive Motors:

Price: $37,950

Yes,its available! Big Blue, as featured on the cover of GT Racing’s catalog, and highlighted in Excellence, Feb 1998. 1973 RSR replica, ready for driver’s education or GT-3 Club Racing. Formerly owned by Tom Bobbitt, PCA National President. Recently completely rebuilt engine by Eurowerks of Charlotte.


Chassis/Body
1970 rust free coupe
Fibreglass fenders, hood, bumpers, flares, plexiglass windows
Sparkling bare metal painted interior
Safety Devices full cage, electrically actuated fire suppression

Suspension
Turbo/993 Brakes, fresh drilled/slotted rotors, adjustable brake bias
22 F/ 31R Torsion bars, Bilstein RSR struts, special valving
21F/ 19 R sway bars, all plastic and monoball suspension
Aluminum trailing arms, adjustable spring plates
HRE forged “fuch style” 3-pc wheels--9.5, 11 x17

Engine
3.2 litre built on 3.0 case (98m x 70.4mm)
12.5 :1 compression, J & E high dome pistons, Pauter rods
Elgin cams and valve springs
Shuffle pinned and knife edged case, ported heads, niresist seals
Electromotive twin plug crank fired ignition
46 IDA Webers
Custom headers and dyno tuned exhaust
B & B front oil cooler

Transmission
5-speed 915 with Quaifw limited slip Close ratio (short gears:3, 4, 5)

[Paul Schooley]

It's mostly how to bond the glass rear quarters onto the steel body and where the joining points are that concerns me the most. The rest is pretty much a case of knowing you're going to be doing a fair bit of final prepping of the 'glass components to get gaps and all correct. I would have to think that using 'glass rear quarters with a 'glass bumper and deck lid/R hinges and plexi rear glass would shave a ton of weight off the back end. I can't get past using steel doors though unless a full supportive cage is utilized.

Has anyone built a tube frame and added the body to it successfully? Or is that considered a 'don't even think about it deal'? I realize this wanders over the edge quite a ways but in planning something special I'd like to investigate all the angles before committing a LOT of time and $$$ into things.

It's said that the early 911's don't have rear shock tower strength to handle coil overs, but I have a '72 parts car with perfect shock towers in it. Couldn't they be cut out and installed on an earlier tub along with possibly an extra steel plate to stiffen things up a bit? I would think a coil over setup would be far superior to stock but the experts would know better than I.