Value of '67S needing restoration.

[rngpc]

Found a car I thought I would run by the board. I don't have any photos to post, so I will try to describe the car as well as I can. Its a '67S coupe that basically needs everything, although its being used as a daily driver. Cons definitely outweigh the pros:

Good:
Runs ok, engine original, webers
transmission shifts great
recent rear suspension rebuild
gas heater there
had driving lights above front bumper, grilles there but no lights
light pastel-looking blue/interior off white or light tan (interesting combo)
original correct size alloys

Bad:

Rust: front lower pan, driver's floor pan (small hole), jack points look suspect, lower outer left door skin needed (2-3"). Rust below rear window near what look like drain or vent tubes running from beneath window to engine bay (this is what I consider the bad rust). I know nothing about rust in this area. No perforations there, but I'm sure when its ground out you will need to do some welding. I'm sure more hiding somewhere.

It seems to have none in the fenders/quarters or door jambs. Low front fenders solid.

Paint: obviously needs redoing

Interior: dash good, not cut up - has original radio, but needs everything else

Needs to be put up on rack to check underneath. Original undercoating left here and there with bare surface rusted metal underneath.

Owner wants something around $20K, which is too much.

I know this isn't much to go on, but any thoughts on approximate value? Its basically a car that need complete cosmetic restoration, but appears OK mechanically.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[kenikh]

$20K is off the rocker money for a car in this condition. $15K is OK, but probably still too high. This car is going to need some SERIOUS rustoration.

[gruen911]

Many guys on this board who have done restorations will tell you that it's usually much easier and cheaper to restore a car mechanically than it is to restore one with serious rust. The cost of an engine or tranny rebuild is expensive too but can be calculated within a certain range. Same with suspension and interior parts. But the cost of cutting out and rewelding substantial areas of rust on an early 911 can really run up the meter and there is no cost range to work with. It's a black hole that sometimes just keeps getting deeper. . Furthermore, unless you have someone who really knows what he is doing, the final product still might not turn out right. That's why it is smarter to be very cautious with any car that requires substantial body work. It's also a good idea to have the person whgo is doing the body work look at the car and give you an estimate.
As far as what the value of a rusty early 911S is, it's hard to say, but if it's restored properly, the end product will be worth in the $40's or more depending on how nice it turns out. There is also a certain amount of satisfaction in bringing one back from the brink and putting it back on the road in all of its glory. But it would be wise to open up a separate bank account that you can use as a slush fund - so the wife doesn't know how much you are spending on the resto work...

[pu911rsr]

It is always going to be cheaper to buy a good or restored car than having one professionally done. Some folks will advocate buying a totally trashed car cheap if you are going to restore it, I am not sure I am not sure I agree with that. I am generally in favor of buying rust free cars when they are available but as the early cars get more and more valuable more of them will get restored. The rust issue is a bit if a black hole but almost anything can be repaired once car is disassembled. 20K is too high.
Phil

[budge96]

I'm sure there are numerous schools of thought when it comes to this subject because right about now it seems to be our favorite !,restore or not to restore and the inherent value of a vehicle sight unseen..
Unless you have experience in restoration of these cars or are very familiar with someone that is ,the more rusty and bodily challenged an early porsche is the more likely it should be left to those in the know !
A mechanical rebuild and freshening up can be reasonably well estimated and you'll know approximately where you stand financially in a car upfront...some
of these body redoes lately are akin to switching numbers 'cause everything but the vin and adjacent chassis is touched and retouched to get back to original..
Then we get back to well once it's done it's worth X right ? Well maybe ,maybe not ..I would prefer to tell people what I've heard art dealers tell their clients (my sis has a gallery ) if you purchase for the love of the art or piece the value is what you place on it !
If you are buying for investment ,you need to be darn tootin' you establish a value you can live with if you can't recover it..
All that said very early 'S' cars in bad shape are going 10 -15 K ,running barely,restored 20-35,original 45 and the skyes the limit it seems ,MHO ,Bert

[rngpc]

I could certainly foresee a large black hole to who knows where. Thanks for all of the input, it is much appreciated!!

[BBausser]

I have a 67S that is undergoing a complete restoration. It went to a very reputable shop in November and if the stars and the planets are aligned correctly it may be finished in late July. I knew there were some rust issues going into the process but not to the extent that were present. At various times I had some doubts and felt like the situation was out of control but then I thought in for a penny in for a pound and kept trudging along. Now I figure I'll end up having somewhere near 50 big ones into the restoration over and above what I paid for it and did to it 15 years ago. But I'm going to have a really nice, mostly original (albeit rebuilt) nearly new ride to enjoy looking at, driving, caring for and talking about for several years coming. Would I do it again - yeah. Go for it. My only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

[Eminence Gris]

Willy brings up a good point. The rust you see now is 1/10th of the rust you will find when you own the car.

Sheetmetal rusting from the inside out will be compromised in many places where the surface looks fine. Even with chassis dipping, the rust will eventually win -- you can only postpone it.

One of the worst places for rust to attack is below the rear window seals. It gets into the rear deck/firewall then works its way up and out until you have this:

[rngpc]

That's where it is rusting. You can't see holes yet, but I know when you start grinding, they will appear and both sides will need to be cut out and replaced. There is rust flaking off near the engine pad but I haven't removed the rear deck to look underneath - probably will need fixing.

I noticed there are two hoses connecting the area beneath the rear window to the rails on each side of the engine, are these for the vents on the interior at the bottom of the rear window?

It appears most of this would have to be cut out and redone, not to mention what else is hiding.

[Eminence Gris]

I noticed there are two hoses connecting the area beneath the rear window to the rails on each side of the engine, are these for the vents on the interior at the bottom of the rear window?

Those are defrost tubes for cars made before electric defrosting windows were introduced.