1973 Carrera RS Cars for Sale

[Tour de Corse]

that car has a long competition history in Italy not surprised if it has an AT engine
White Grand-Prix with blue "Carrera" letters
Italian delivery in feb. 1973
ex-Benvenuti, ex-Vannini, ex-Donà, ex-Cane
1973 Rally Veneto-Cansiglio, car n°161
1974 Varano Coppa A.C Verona, car n°143
1975 Varano, car n°175
1975 Varano Coppa A.C Verona, car n°124
1975 Bolzano-Mendola, car n°438
1975 Varano Trofero Venezia, car n°145
1977 Bressanone S. Andrea, car n°208
1977 Bolzano-Mendola, car n°136
1978 Rally due Valli, car n°3
1978 Rally 333 Minuti, car n°3
1978 Rally internationale 100,000 trabucci, car n°5
1978 Rally Lana, car n°5
1979 Targa Florio, car n°37
1979 Rally Mille Miglia, car n°1

Attachment 628784

When I saw the results of the sale , my 1st thought was that the price was low. But upon examination .


The period photos (seem) to all be the same car. But there is something amiss. The 1st thing I noticed , was that by 1975 ('1975 Varano' : no. 175) , it seems to have had a rear steel center section and accompanying steel pieces.

BUT then Noticed the rear quarter windows in a couple photos (1975 Balzano : no. 438) & 1977 Bressanone : no. 208) . The car in these photos seems to not have fixed windows. I've never heard of nor seen a 'Sport' (471) without fixed rear quarter windows.

SO , is this history really attached to 0573 . Or is there some reason a Sport model (471) was constructed with opening rear qtrs ?

[911MRP]

When I saw the results of the sale , my 1st thought was that the price was low. But upon examination .


The period photos (seem) to all be the same car. But there is something amiss. The 1st thing I noticed , was that by 1975 ('1975 Varano' : no. 175) , it seems to have had a rear steel center section and accompanying steel pieces.

BUT then Noticed the rear quarter windows in a couple photos (1975 Balzano : no. 438) & 1977 Bressanone . The car in these photos seems to not have fixed windows. I've never heard of nor seen a 'Sport' (471) without fixed rear quarter windows.

SO , is this history really attached to 0573 . Or is there some reason a Sport model (471) was constructed with opening rear qtrs ?

Metal rear bumpers and opening vent windows was factory on some M471 Carrera RS.

Some late M471 Sport did get opening rear windows and metal rear bumpers as factory specification . Seeing an M471 with the metal rear bumper uniquely flared for RS assuming original would on face of it suggest an April 73 onward build date. If seen together with opening vent it would suggest it is an M471 RS built from around end of April 73 onwards — the switch from Glaverbel fixed glass to series opening vent affected the M471 Sport examples among the last several hundred RS built (roughly).

I don’t know about this chassis’ history so won’t comment specifically on that car. However more generally for context… after homologation was competed soon after first week of April RS were built when meeting homologation weight no longer mattered.
Porsche could maximise profit margin by making the once limited edition lighter-in-weight RS in essentially same way to the heavier TES. Various costly parts and inefficient things they did operationally specifically for those nominal 500 plus 500 more used as the tally for homologation evidence got changed. Evidence is in an internal memo instructing make changes to the build procedures for 911.744 and to stop using special parts. Done purposefully presumably for commercial reason — not just ran out of special parts as some on past have claimed. Although some parts were consumed to be frugal the reality is Porsche quite and cynically no longer bothered to make ( most) of the remaining production tin inthe ways they had made it a special lightweight homologation limited edition.

Hence as a result of that deliberate policy and procedure and component change mandate we see M471 Sport begin to get the single piece glass-fibre rear bumper replaced by steel rear bumper (using flared parts like touring albeit without the rubber S trim to bumper and bumperettes as a sop to lightness). Also later from around end April the M471 stopped getting the thin Glaverbel fixed rear quarter windows and got opening rear vent windows like series TES fitted instead.

The late M471 are what my knowledgable straight-talking Yorkshire mentor and friend terms “heavy lightweights”! Perhaps understandable Porsche didn’t make a big deal in 73 that later RS were not being built in special way with special parts like the original much vaunted lightweight homologation specials. Not commenting about the change to productising the once special model meant they could milk the unexpected demand when producing a third series.

What is odd is 50 years later folks often still don’t seem to realise despite the millions of words written about the Carrera RS model there are fundamental different after that April date. While some late RS got different material for case halves and revised suspension geometry at rear ( which reportedly was better for wide slick shod race examples used on smooth track but less good for road use road tyres). With most later RS being essentially essentially same as TES series chassis so don’t have a number of the features that made the first RS a lighter-weight homologation limited edition at the core — regardless of M471 or M472.

Bolt on parts particularly rear bumper and even quarter windows are not at core as the thinner gauge metal welded throughout but the earlier cars so are reasonably interchangeable (albeit Glaverbel are expensive hard to find rare parts). Generally 73 RS used for competition would switch to the lighter equipment if available — not typically done the other way around. A one piece bumper original or more likely a pattern part was often fitted to Touring used when in competitions.

Some buyers seem happy to pay seven figure $ for a M471 Sport that wouldn’t have ever had a number of the features that are arguably what actually made the Carrera RS the limited edition lightweight special — the very things that Porsche went to extraordinary inefficient costly loops and hoops to ensure were done on a very unconventional way. Yet they baulk at paying that amount for an M472 of the first 1000. Baulk at paying that for a largely unmolested M472 chassis had / still has those special features. It make me wonder if some folks actually understand the role the first 500 (plus 500) more RS examples built in special ways and using special parts and being independently verified as having the lighter chassis at core rather. For some reason market gets seduced by the few later heavy lightweight chassis that by having less interior trim look as though they were the examples that played that pivotal role in Porsche history when it was essential the 911 needed they homologation to move the 911 front and centre of factory racing activities. But ( most) did not.

Strange when actually stop to understand the homolgation approach Porsche actually used for 911.744 model as the sums involved are significantly different for a “heavy lightweight” that superficially looks the part but isn’t a homolgation example vs an 500er with chassis that was certifiably was a homolgation example.

Buyers prerogative to choose what they wish to spend money on but often surprised at the level of understanding of the this special model. Folks know the 73 RS had special role on homolgation but often don’t know the what, the how or in particular which are the true homolgation chassis numbers.

Here in black and white in a mani about build procedures
IMG_0196.jpeg

“After the completion of the RS series of 1000 vehicles, the requirements of the certification are met. The following vehicles can be used in the following points different from the respective construction description.
Carrera RS (Typ 911.744) M 471 and M 472”
This is a very significant distinction … one would think it is easy to comprehend be taken when segmenting the over 1500 Carrera RS production ti
run! ? Fewer in number M471 and less weight got added with the Sport conversion equipment than M472 Touring equipment conversion but each and every one of that 1000 all had the special lightweight base chassis. After 1000 (most) were not

In summary: forget M471 Sport or M472 Touring! They were conversion packages that could add trim to the base Carrera RS 911.744. To unquestionably identify which were the true homolgation chassis examples at their very core focus instead the first 1000( the 500 examples plus the second 500) which by virtue of each being weighed and their chassis numbers recorded were the unquestionably the true lighter-in-weight base Carrera homologation RS . It’s not hard to understand this but it seems it’s often misunderstood and obscured in colloquial terms that get bandied around today - terms like “lightweight” and “homolgation ” when term is used as if they are a factory official designation.

Those were not meaningful in period of the “series of 1000” if meant as a designation for the RS configured as M471 Sport . Why not? Simple if think about it even for a second or two it becomes immediately obvious!

It would have been [U]meaningless nonsense to do so for those series of 1000 early examples [/U because each and every one of the series of 1000 referred to in the factory internal document about the 911.744 build procedures and parts for uniquely for the 1000 that were assembled as lightweight chassis to meet the homolgation target weight. Each and every one of that 1000 (regardless of any conversion order) were specifically built using those different (withdrawn) procedures and using different parts for the sole purpose of achieving the homologation certification that is referred to as having been met.!

Many factors affect value and its worth what someone will pay but in this context of the evolution is the 73 RS that the details about the specific car in the quote might be considered, I suppose.

Steve

[Tour de Corse]

The metal rear pieces being used on a 1973 Sport model was implemented on April 9 , 1973 , according to Konradshiem , April production started about number 0900 , as I remember from his list. So , 0573 is too early for these pieces as original fitment is what I was pointing out. Along with the fact that even a later 'Sport' fitted that way , would have plain chrome rear horns . if fitted with m058 rubbers if would have a Z-order in a cars build records (if it was original pre-build order) . o573 was not originally built this way

And unless i'm seeing things the car in these period competition photos (which is supposed to be 0573) has opening rear quarter windows (for this also to occur .....if Porsche would allow....there would have a special Z-order in it's records).

Either 0573 was modified after it's original build, or the car in the period competition photos is a differant car.

[911MRP]

While I don’t know what happened to 0573 over last 5 decades build completion conversion would have fallen at end Jan beginning Feb of 1973 (although 73 RS were not built in strict vin sequence that’s a reasonable estimate. Therefore likely build of 0573 was complete roughly two months before the two different dates on April 73 from which the specifications changed on M471 regarding these two things: the metal rear bumper ( without S type rubber ) and the opening vent windows. There might be logical explanation for what you are flagging as possible anachronisms, perhaps some of the older photos thought to be 0573 could by mistake be of a different 73 RS? Switching the lighter rear bumper and thinner Glaverbel isn’t typically what we see on RS used in competition, but who knows what has happened over the years.

I would hope the purchaser has done their due diligence and had pre-purchase inspections done by someone with knowledge.

Steve

[Tour de Corse]

360 0170 , the BAT auction Sepia car (I thought the orig. post was showing)

If the new owner of this car , frequents this forum , or anyone knows them. Please have them contact me here via PM .

Thank you

[rostrenner]

Apparently 0295, a M471, for sale as restauration project on Kleinanzeigen Germany:
https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzei...04064-216-4840






Although no resemblence of the original grand-prix white with red stickers, the middle tunnel shows the typical RS reinforcement bracket under the venting cover.

Dr.K book confirms heated rear window and LSD as stated in the PAG letter.
Do you guys know more detail about this car?

Best,
Jan

[72targa]

VIN Reference = 9113600295

[Jay Laifman]

It looks like the sale of 0170 fell through and is back on BAT:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...rs-touring-7-2

[pgxif]

VIN Reference = 9113600295

Text of Ad translated on google:

“ 911 SC RS Lightweight M471, one of 200 units!

This offer presents a unique opportunity for the Porsche enthusiast: the acquisition of a rare 911 SC RS Lightweight, a true racing ancestor of the iconic sports car from Zuffenhausen. Privately owned since 1987, it comes with the original vehicle registration documents and the factory certificate of authenticity. As a TÜV SÜD AG vehicle expert, trained in classic Porsche vehicles, and a long-time owner, I guarantee the vehicle's originality. The complete VIN is only available to a small group of potential buyers upon inspection. No pictures, no shipping.

The engine and transmission are not matching numbers, but they belong to the series. The removed engine was overhauled in a specialist workshop a long time ago and stored. The vehicle has had seven previous owners and thus two vehicle titles. The last deregistration certificate from 1987 is also present. I cannot say why the vehicle was widened and repainted. A factory restoration to the matching number is associated with Porsche Classic.

Exclusive: The vehicle is reduced every Monday. Cash accepted. Only one Porsche vehicle is accepted for trade-in.

View, buy, and take home.

Mobile: 0151 155 10 209

Private sale. No liability for defects. No guarantee. No warranty. No returns. No exchange.

[Yellow491]

Text of Ad translated on google:

“ 911 SC RS Lightweight M471, one of 200 units!

This offer presents a unique opportunity for the Porsche enthusiast: the acquisition of a rare 911 SC RS Lightweight, a true racing ancestor of the iconic sports car from Zuffenhausen. Privately owned since 1987, it comes with the original vehicle registration documents and the factory certificate of authenticity. As a TÜV SÜD AG vehicle expert, trained in classic Porsche vehicles, and a long-time owner, I guarantee the vehicle's originality. The complete VIN is only available to a small group of potential buyers upon inspection. No pictures, no shipping.

The engine and transmission are not matching numbers, but they belong to the series. The removed engine was overhauled in a specialist workshop a long time ago and stored. The vehicle has had seven previous owners and thus two vehicle titles. The last deregistration certificate from 1987 is also present. I cannot say why the vehicle was widened and repainted. A factory restoration to the matching number is associated with Porsche Classic.

Exclusive: The vehicle is reduced every Monday. Cash accepted. Only one Porsche vehicle is accepted for trade-in.

View, buy, and take home.

Mobile: 0151 155 10 209

Private sale. No liability for defects. No guarantee. No warranty. No returns. No exchange.

Am i reading this right ,what is he saying in regards to porsche classic and matching number!