1973 Carrera RS Cars for Sale

[sithot]

Variety FWIW.

'76 Continental Orange
'74 Mexico Blue
'80 GP White SC
'73 911
'73 RS 9113601291
'73 RS 9113600472 (subject car)

[911MRP]

This example from the “one from the road” film that has extensive footage of the build process at Porsche factory recorded during calendar 1973 is a strong datapoint:
IMG_4167.jpg
Based on the content of the film and the various details captured on the 911 cars being produced the film covers model 73. Also from other things seen in the film most likely majority of the in factory footage was recorded around the spring of 1973.

There can be little doubt from this screen grab (a still frame from tbe film’s moving images from around 25 min running timer ) it is one of the 911.744 models near completion. This is more evident if the original moving footage is viewed.

It’s very clear this example (just like the other new or nearly new model 73 images I posted #2658 above) also has a continuous smooth curve to the end of the rear slam panel. These are different cars spanning from a known calendar 72 build RS to one in sping if 73 — different shape to rear slam with a pronounced kink.

This image here meets the criteria I’m suggesting as most credible to consider as evidence to determine how panel was when the 911 73 model was new: clearly model 73 car; brand new at factory or nearly new with solid provenance to car; credible source of image.
For reasons explained while interesting I place little weight on more recent photos of cars where the provenance of the rear panel is not really known even where it is felt to be original

Perhaps let’s simplify by considering one form-factor at a time. Let’s for the moment leave the point about when the small raised square first appeared on the left of panel with the continuous smooth curve in 1973. We can come back to that curious little addition once the evidence from new or nearly new has been assessed regarding the more fundamental point about curvature at the rear slam panel ends in model 73.

Unless hard evidence is forthcoming that meets equivalent criteria is it time to call “myth busted” to the claim by some that the 73 Carrera RS model had the rear slam with the distinctive hockey-stick more angular kink at end? I for one think that the model 73 had the continuous smoth curvature; not the distinctive version with the more angular kink. IMO the latter only came in sometime in latter half 70 so although got used as replacement they are not correct rear slam for the 73 RS.

However I remain open to persuasion should credible in-period evidence to the contrary emerge.

Steve

[HughH]

Steve
We did an investigation of the timing of the raised bump some years ago on this board
the only assumption was that all models got that revised panel at about the same time (ie depending on when they ran out of old stock on the production line and allowing for variations in how long it took a car to be finished)
I think the changeover date was narrowed down to the beginning of March 1973 (but given that the "production date is usually shown only as the first day of the month for anything in the month by that time) it would be more accurate to say sometime in March 1973
That was done over quite a large number of cars (all models) owned or known about by members at the time
I have no doubt (as shown by Tom's photos above) that the angled piece sis not come until 1977 or so

[911MRP]

Hugh

Understood and pleased you agree the more angled rear slam end shape came long after model 73 in that sentence that I’ve quoted here:
“I have no doubt (as shown by Tom's photos above) that the angled piece sis not come until 1977 or so”
I know you keep records and pictures more thoroughly than most so it helps.

To me it’s that point in your last sentence (less so the other detail about the timing of of the small square’s first appearance) became the much more fundamental question to address after I read the following in post #2654 earlier today:

It's puzzling that Road Scholars is insistent 0472 has its original rear slam panel, including posting a number of pictures of correct real slam panels on other original RS's. Yet even my untrained eye instantly saw the later slam panel when I clicked on the listing.

Not clear from the comment where Road Scholars might have posted such information? I have not seen the posts with pictures by Road Scholars that is mentioned by cwrm4 myself and expect it’s some other site not here but the comment in the post did make me want to challenge by sharing some evidence I had and calling for evidence here on this ESR thread.

I doubt credible evidence to the contrary dating from model year 73 will emerge but open and interested to see what emerges.

I do recall the prior discussions regarding the appearance of the curious raised squares and have looked into myself but with that being an accepted change introduced (phased in) within the 73 model year is much less fundamental then hearing there were assertions being made suggesting a rear slam panel that I believe was introduced a handful of years later than model 73 is said to be the authentic original 73 RS part used at new .

I don’t know specifics about the car in question and have not comnentef the panel in that BAF listing but saw others had. I don’t much care about the auction — it’s buyer beware so after a so let prospective buyers do due diligence and decide. I wish the auction and the seller every success!

However I do care IF things I consider questionable information get put out. Things that might become accepted as fact. Too often I’ve seen how confusion once seeded, particularly things said about the 73 RS, becomes hard to correct.

That’s why I posted a number images from 73 today — I believe with the criteria I’ve applied in choosing the handful they credibly support the opinion. Keen to see more examples dating from 1973.

Others might disagree with my viewpoint . Since it seems you and some others here share I’m sure we would interested in seeing the evidence from those arguing to the contrary — always open to learn if the evidence turns out to compelling and equally credible. Images from 73 not clouded by five decades of uncertainty of what has happened to a particular car obviously carry more weight when discussing authenticity to original factory specification.

Steve

[RSTarga]

Not and RS but my May production S, mine since new.

[911MRP]

David, Not many folks can post such a thing so great to see it— because of your history with your car and knowledge of it and the model generally appreciate a hugely credible input, even if it isn’t a picture of it when brand new that I keep banging on about

As its owner from new I guess you'd remember a rear slam panel change!

So yet another credible datapoint supporting the view that the continuously smooth curved end on rear slam was what factory used in model 73.

With the Jenks press car (so new as to require running in) being a known November 72 build and your car being a May build we now have got a date span of evidence through much of model 73. Whilst we see the mysterious square at left on yours to me more importantly your post is yet another example of the smooth curve; not the angled that reportedly some are out to prove was used in 73.

As mentioned, the rear slam panel is not on the list showing the specific panels that were .8 (vs .88 steel) as used on early homologation RS so there is no reason to think what is being discussed here is specific to the 73 RS. TES or RS example with no room for uncertainty that it’s being changed would be interesting - unless like David’s situation not sure much credence can be put on 50!year old cars where there is doubt. For that reason I’ve refrained from showing a 22k mile RS exemplar that would add yet more evidence ( its panel shape is consistent with the others). From extensive knowledge of it I have little doubt it’s original but I’m trying to only surface examples with virtually zero possibility that the panel could’ve been changed.

I’ve seen many a car ( often RS ) commented upon when presented FS here with the angular shaped slam panel. I don’t recall those critiques of the panel being rebutted here? So I was a bit surprised to read the comments in post #2654 that suggested some folks might think different?

I’m chipping in a lot as topic piqued my interest (as I tend to do in other matters of authenticity) while I have a view ultimately I don’t mind what is concluded provided it is based on very credible evidence. With its reach to so many folks and examples ESR is the ideal forum to investigate things like this; so far probably no surprise which way the evidence is pointing despite a number of RS this entire thread of over 2500 posts have for various reasons ended up with the ( later 77 >?) shape that doesn’t seem to be considered here to be the original factory panel on model 73.

Steve

[911MRP]

Has this one been posted here?

One to watch, it is the last few of the first 500er series 0508 without an Mxxx conversion.

IMG_4180.jpg
Estimate $2,000,000 - $2,500,000

https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1973-p...y&utm_content=

Shouldn’t it be 188 ft-lbs torque!?

Steve

[billh]

Has this one been posted here?

One to watch, it is the last few of the first 500er series 0508 without an Mxxx conversion.

IMG_4180.jpg
Estimate $2,000,000 - $2,500,000

https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1973-p...y&utm_content=

Steve

Hammered a few minutes ago @ $1.8M
So ~$1.985M with fees
Strong bidding on that car

[911MRP]

It's puzzling that Road Scholars is insistent 0472 has its original rear slam panel, including posting a number of pictures of correct real slam panels on other original RS's. Yet even my untrained eye instantly saw the later slam panel when I clicked on the listing.

Are you referring to the four pictures showing rear slam panels as examples posted to the BAT website listing presumably by the seller, if so to my eye all these four example cars have different shaped ends if compared to the rear slam panel shape in the photo of 0472? Aren’t the four added example cars all consistent with the continuous smooth curved ends of the model 73 at new or nearly new that I uploaded to posts #2658 and #2662? And David’s model 73 car that he has had from new?


Steve

[cwrm4]

I went back and looked at the BaT listing and Road Scholars' post (maybe they edited it?) states "There is no record of the vehicle sustaining any impact or accident damage, but the notes regarding its restoration for Jean-Claude Bonhomme mention the repairs to the floors being performed because the second owner drove the car throughout Paris which led to a fair bit of rust."

But then attached to their post are several photos of RSes with the correct "continuous curve" rear slam panel, which 0472 clearly doesn't have. So perhaps they are effectively saying "we will not confirm nor deny the rear slam panel is not original on 0472, but draw your own conclusions based on these photos".

FWIW I'm in the camp that believes all RSes would have been built with the "continuous curve" rear slam panel.