R Gruppe Hijack

[creator8]

Hate to step out here, or maybe I don't, but this thread caught my eye over in the Classifieds:

http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...ad.php?t=12725

I am certainly not the "R Gruppe Police" as I am a fairly recent member, but this car being described as a "911T R Gruppe", particularly by someone signing "R Gruppe # not yet", is a big time stretch for so many reasons I don't need to outline to R Gruppe members or followers.

I know this isn't the R Gruppe board but it is populated by many of its members of varying standings. So in the interest of healthy debate and discussion I had a couple of thoughts/questions.

1. The R Gruppe is a formal group/club/organization with what is now a distinct identity. How does it/we feel about such hijacks of that identity, particularly when they are so blatantly wrong.

2. At what point is a car an R Gruppe Car and when can it be, and I use this term carefully as there are many ramifications here, "correctly" be described as such. When it belongs to a member in good standing?

3. With the identity now becoming so distinct, is anyone looking out for the R Gruppe's interests in this respect. Does anyone care?

Again, questions to stimulate and provoke discussion. Thoughts???

[MoparBoy72]

I saw that when it was posted...

I cringed and I am not even a R-member.

I am sorry for your unregistered affiliation. I mean please, keep it period. Are those track wheels...?

[curtisaa]

There are NO Rgruppe cars, with the exception of a "911R". There are only rgruppe members, "no ego's allowed".

this ad is kudos to our Gruppemeister and his vision.

[steven0401]

Are we worried about the commodification of a professedly renegade / outlaw group. Is it becoming branded? Does it need to be copyrighted? Any intellectual property hot rod lawyers around? (and what do you make of that bumper to flare interesction?)

[72targa]

Here's where to start...

http://www.uspto.gov/web/trademarks/workflow/start.htm

[RickS]

Ditto on Steven's question about intellectual property.

Maybe the cup wheels will become a new R Gruppe standard?

[911scfanatic]

Are we worried about the commodification of a professedly renegade / outlaw group. Is it becoming branded? Does it need to be copyrighted? Any intellectual property hot rod lawyers around? (and what do you make of that bumper to flare interesction?)

I'm an intellectual property "hot rod" attorney. If anything, I'm pragmatic. So, I would start by short-circuiting any discussion going down this path. Bottom line: is RGruppe as an entity going to pay money (and lots of it) to police and enforce any intellectual property rights it may have or develop? Answer: no. Then really the whole discussion is academic, and I'm not a big fan of academic legal discussions. I can point everyone to some people on the Mothership who enjoy endlessly pontificating about such things though, if you like.

[911scfanatic]

...and I tend to agree with Curt if anybody is keeping score at home.

[creator8]

Whether you like it or not there are definitely R Gruppe cars and their style most certainly sits within a loose set of guidelines--this car that spiked the discussion, definitely not within them.

[911pcars]

"Whether you like it or not there are definitely R Gruppe cars and their style most certainly sits within a loose set of guidelines--this car that spiked the discussion, definitely not within them."

Steve,
With all due respects, aren't you defining what an RGruppe is or isn't by your statement?

I've seen several RGruppe member cars with turbo as well as stock rear fenders; haven't seen any with cup wheels yet, but i don't get out that often. However, a quick pit stop would solve that. I've noticed some RGruppe owners describe their almost-built-to-spec cars as "R", "RS", "RSR" or "ST". Are they posers too? What's an RGruppe car supposed to look like/be equipped with? Please include all permutations. As Curt said, RGruppe is a group of car owners with their cars, not just cars.

Maybe a more a more accurate loose description would be "RGruppe-type 911" - to include all stock and modified 911s but for the genuine articles.

Sherwood