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Thread: Final thread on transition from 65-66 model yr!

  1. #1

    Final thread on transition from 65-66 model yr!

    I have read all my books and all the treads I could find both at this forum and at Pelican, but still I am not 100% sure. Can the experts hear confirm that the 1965 PRODUCTION ended with VIN 303390 and that the 1965 MODEL year ended June/July 1965 around VIN 301800? Most books and the Elferhelfer site must be wrong and be confusing production years with model years? The reason I ask is that a guy claims his 303382 is a 1965 model year car. I also wonder if there was any thru 1965 model year cars imported to the US before the year 1966? I have read that the 911 was not DOT approved before 1966, so any thru model year cars must have been produced before June/July 1965 and not imported into the US before 1966 and then got a US 1966 model year designation even if it actually was a 1965 model year car?

    http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...0&pagenumber=2

    I wonder if I am just totally confused about all the contradiction info.

    John
    Early 911S Registry #931
    --------------------------------
    1971 911 2.2S Coupe Albert Blue
    1971 911 2.2T Coupe Tangerine
    2005 997 C2S Coupe special 1965 slate grey
    1978 911 3.0 SC Targa Silver w/chrome trim

  2. #2
    John,

    Let the misinformation and contradiction end here.

    As Bob's chart illustrates, 303390 was the first 911 manufactured in Calendar Year 1966. We know this because 302981 rolled off the line on November 24, 1965, and 304065 (my car) dates from April 1, 1966. With 1084 body numbers in four months (roughly) that's about 271 cars a month, which would put 303390 right about January. Of course this is all an estimate, the daily production varied and I'm sure there were plenty of holidays, but it's a close enough linear interpolation.

    The numbers in all the books correlate serial number to CALENDAR year.

    Now, as far as model year goes, the factory is closed in August, so the last cars from the 1965 Model Year were completed in July, and cars built in September onward are 1966 Model Year. So if your car was sold November, 1965, (like Fidalgo911S, #302947) it was a 1966 Model Year car. A lot of the confusion arises because people look at the port chainbox and see the Solex fuel pump and think 64 or 65, but '66's made up until February of 1966 had Solexes.

    Now, the state DMV is an entirely different matter. I've heard that many '65s were titled as '66s, I cant verify that. Ignore the title, go by the numbers stamped into the body.

    That should clear it up. #303382 is a 1965 production, 1966 Model Year car, probably manufactured in December, 1966, with Solex Carbs, 2-Screw Horn Grills, washer tank behind the trunk latch panel, adjustable camber strut tops, etc. Again, ignore everything but what your eyes see.
    1966 911 #304065 Irischgruen

  3. #3
    I am aware of the changes in the years 65 till mid 66, but what are the differences between the 65 and 66 year modelyear besides probably the use of a 66 paintcode?

    So far I have not been able to tell that all the changes came in September, starting at a cerain body number. It seems to me that the changes gradually phased in.

    Richard

  4. #4
    Original parts restorer jaudette3's Avatar
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    I don't know this for a fact when talking about early 911's. But I have some experience with 356's and I do know for a fact that Porsche was a very frugal company in the early days and they hated to waste anything. Therefore, there would be parts from old models on new models. You see this a lot with the early cars of a new production series, not to mention a new year.

    For example: The first Roadsters were BT5's, a dramatic model change from the AT2 series (the AT2 chrome frame open cars were Convertible D's). I have a Roadster from mid-1960 (88205) that wasn't even that early as the first Roadster VIN was 86831. But my car still has a number of AT2 parts on it.

    I don't think Porsche threw too much away when it came to 356 production -- and I suspect it was the same with the early 911's. Which is one reason why it's sometimes hard to know with absolute certainty what is "correct" and what is not.

    Another reason is that the factory would do just about anything a customer wanted. An example of that is that I have a day/night mirror on my Roadster. Even though it was on the Certificate of Authenticity, no-one believed that it was correct until I obtained a copy of the actual factory Kardex - and there it was.

    Anyway, the Originality Correctness Police have a tough job with the early cars.

    Regards,
    John Audette
    Resources for Hardcore Air-Cooled Porsche Enthusiasts”
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    AC Shop: BEST-IN-CLASS Air Cooled 911 Parts => 911BestInClass.com
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  5. #5

    Vin

    I'm still confused. I have vin # 301826 which I have thought was a 66. I know it is fairly early since it has fixed shock towers, no camber/caster adjustments. Is my car a 65?

    Best, John

    John Ashford
    Towson, MD
    Early S Registry #630
    71 911T Burgundy
    71 911S Irish Green
    65 911 #301826, Silver
    57 Speedster #83702 Aquamarine Blue

  6. #6
    It looks like your 301826 must be very near the change between 65 and 66 model year John !! If they stopped production 31 July, as they closed down for summer in August,(I have read somewhere) and they made 301803 on the 20 July, they have to have made 23 cars in 10 days for yours to be a 1965 model year car? Flemming had a best guess that the change was on VIN 301812-13? I have heard that there is production books at the factory that it is possible to flip thru to find the build date?

    Flemming at Pelican has made this list:

    1965 Year of Mfg.
    300235.......900347.....100240...................4 Jan 1965/1965
    300398.......900475.....100371...................1 Feb 1965/1965
    300688.......900828.....100728.................18M ar 1965/1965.."911quest"

    301368......901484......101406.....6411.... 25May 1965/1965.."DaveE"
    301382......................................6405.. ...21Jun 1965/1965.Jim Alton
    301803.......902010............................... .20Jul…1965/1965"marinmccreevy"

    302064.......902158.....102075... 6404.................. /1966(COA)John Hora
    302831............................................ ......12Nov 1965/....... ."semjon"
    302933............................................ ............................. ..Rick Cabell
    302947........903154...................6602.... 25Nov 1965/......."Fildalgo 911S"
    302981........903143......225230...6608.....24Nov 1965/1966(COA)R.Schnieder

    1966 Year of Mfg.
    303391
    303414............................................ ....................../1966.."roblav"
    303997.........907276............................. ................../1966...Rick Cabell
    304065.........907316.....229641...6606......1Apr 1966/1966(COA)J.Cramer

    304784.........908024............................. ............1966/1967..Tim "axis 11"
    304879.........908047............................. .................../1967..Brian "bonzo"
    305101..1967 Model / Sept 1966
    305701........909363......130300...6602........... ............................ JCF
    306956S......961030.....104025.................... Dec?/1966/1967..Bob Fleming

    1967 Year of Mfg.
    307351


    Best
    John
    Early 911S Registry #931
    --------------------------------
    1971 911 2.2S Coupe Albert Blue
    1971 911 2.2T Coupe Tangerine
    2005 997 C2S Coupe special 1965 slate grey
    1978 911 3.0 SC Targa Silver w/chrome trim

  7. #7
    Senior Member 911quest's Avatar
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    The more I find out about my car the more I believe it was an import from Europe before they were brought over for sale there is a huge jump between 300688 and 301638 it would be interesting to find out which was the first offical chasis it be delivered to a dealer

  8. #8
    Flemming had a best guess that the change was on VIN 301812-13?
    I think he is off at least 200 cars. John Hora has car 302064 with paint code6404. My belief is Porsche changed to the 66XX paintcode number when they changed to the 66 model year, but still I do not know the differences between the 65 and 66 model year. The first car that I have ever seen w/ a 66 paint code is car 3022??.

    Richard

  9. #9
    Don't be too hard on Bob, in the absence of someone coming forward with a COA for a car right at the end of the range, we're only guessing.

    Many of the changeover points for differences between the years are undocumented, as Dr. Johnson points out. But a few of the more obvious differences are:

    Four screw grills replaced by two screw grills (from 303468)
    Solexes replaced by Weber 40IDA and engine change to 901/05 (Feb 66)
    Rubber shift boot instead of leather
    Washer bottle relocated from wheel arch to behind trunk latch panel
    901/0 gearbox to 902/1 (shorter gears so car could reach redline in top)

    As far as the cutover point for other things like Nadella Axles, I'll have to do some more research.

    Hey! Do you have an 1964-1968 911? Post your numbers!
    1966 911 #304065 Irischgruen

  10. #10
    First I appreciate research that guys as Bob do.

    Second I came across the Kardex of 301945. It left the factory on the 27th of August 1965. It had paintcode 6606 (irish green).

    So my reply earlier has already been outdated. It also shows that the cars didn't leave the factory in sequential order. John Hora's car (302064) is 119 numbers after and still had a 64 paintcode ..

    Re. Your Nadella quest. 303414 (roblav) still had it's original Nadella axles.

    Richard

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