Final thread on transition from 65-66 model yr!

[preS]

The only Porsche suggested model year change from 1965 to 1966 was by gearbox numbers per the spec. book (illustration above). On the attached service bulletin it gives the date of the change in the 902/1 five-speed as July 26, 1965. This series gearbox is the only one that did not start with a unique number but continued as a series and was used in both 911 and 912s. The service bulletin also contains the first few 911s to receive this gearbox (numbers start at 221722). If nothing else, it shows how out of chassis number order cars were completed (though they have sorted it into increasing numbers).

The other two gearbox types that changed on the same day are:

902/0 912 four-speed 1965 end: 162225 1966 begin: 163001
911 four-speed 1965 end: N/A 1966 begin: 200001

Obviously, early gearboxes were used on later cars, but this should place the 1965/1966 transition to around 302000, yes?

Is there any research on 912 affiliated chassis numbers out there -- or another service bulletin?

BTW, the sake of uniformity only lasted one year.

Can one conclude that a. 302072 is the highest vin w the 901/0 tranny and b. _most likely_ MY 65?

Richard

[Brett Johnson]

Well, if you go just by the gearbox numbers:

1965 end — 221721 (912) 8.8.65.
1966 begin — 221722 (911/912) 15 sept 65

If you go by the calendar date, the service bulletin tells the story. In this era, all of these numbers are relative. Government regulations took care of that in the future.

Thanks to Jules D. for the research!

[davep]

My humble opinion is that, by and large, the engines and transmissions installed can be largely ignored at the transition point. They had a considerable number of each on hand, and they chose them randomly for installation. The 901/0 transmissions ended with 102282 which might suggest that 2282 cars were built with 1965 transmissions, but I am certain that less than 2000 cars were built as 1965 model year cars. That is an excess of about 300 transmissions, and while it is possible that so many failed in the first year, the mysterious fact is that in my database I do not see transmissions installed above 102077. Also, many of these are installed in 1966 MY cars.
A careful reading through this entire thread might show that 3 or 4 items are typical of a 1965 MY car: a 64xx paint code, a straight knee pad and a large ignition bezel with an invoice date of 1965 July 28 or earlier. There are 66xx paint codes as early as the 3014xx range and many more in the 3019xx range; the earliest appear to be custom built cars. The 64xx paint codes were still in use during 1966 MY for custom requests; 6402, 6403, 6405, 6407 in particular plus the 641x group. At least up to 302064 the 64xx codes were in common use. So the paint code change is generally from 301900 to 302100, and what better reason for a paint code change than a model year change with new color introductions. The straight knee pad was still on a few early 1966 MY RHD cars. The ignition bezel probably was a running change that occurred at about the right time for the main MY change. The invoice date is not a production date, but can serve as a "no later than" date.
The Factory wanted all of the early 911's & 912's to be early introduction 1966 model year, but from all of the changes in July 1966 it is apparent to me that there was a 1965 model year.

[preS]

My humble opinion is that, by and large, the engines and transmissions installed can be largely ignored at the transition point. They had a considerable number of each on hand, and they chose them randomly for installation. The 901/0 transmissions ended with 102282 which might suggest that 2282 cars were built with 1965 transmissions, but I am certain that less than 2000 cars were built as 1965 model year cars. That is an excess of about 300 transmissions, and while it is possible that so many failed in the first year, the mysterious fact is that in my database I do not see transmissions installed above 102077. Also, many of these are installed in 1966 MY cars.
A careful reading through this entire thread might show that 3 or 4 items are typical of a 1965 MY car: a 64xx paint code, a straight knee pad and a large ignition bezel with an invoice date of 1965 July 28 or earlier. There are 66xx paint codes as early as the 3014xx range and many more in the 3019xx range; the earliest appear to be custom built cars. The 64xx paint codes were still in use during 1966 MY for custom requests; 6402, 6403, 6405, 6407 in particular plus the 641x group. At least up to 302064 the 64xx codes were in common use. So the paint code change is generally from 301900 to 302100, and what better reason for a paint code change than a model year change with new color introductions. The straight knee pad was still on a few early 1966 MY RHD cars. The ignition bezel probably was a running change that occurred at about the right time for the main MY change. The invoice date is not a production date, but can serve as a "no later than" date.
The Factory wanted all of the early 911's & 912's to be early introduction 1966 model year, but from all of the changes in July 1966 it is apparent to me that there was a 1965 model year.

Dave do you have a car higher than 302072 w a 901/0 transmission. Btw your 302064 is in line w 302064 since they were not made in sequential order?

Richard

[Brett Johnson]

All other model years are determined by date and there is a date given for the first 902/1 gearbox installation in the service bulletin -- and the further defining is in the spec book list which defines the 901 gearbox as being 1965 and the 902/1 being 1966. Since cars are not built in order and gearboxes as an assembly item are not in order and certainly not numerical order, something must define difference.

After 1967, this is moot since the numbering system ceased being sequential. But after then, just as in 1965 all changes did not happen precisely at the model year. I have photos of an unrestored 1968 with a 1967-style ash tray and an early 1971 with a 1970 glovebox door.

You can make a case for paint plates, but this is neither officially Porsche defined, nor researchable, since there may be ones with 64XX numbers finished/invoiced after ones with 66XX and the first one is not precisely known. Similar to ignition switch August/September and knee pad late August, they didn't change at a precise chassis number and certainly did not occur at the same time.

911s with the first 902/1 gearboxes are defined specifically in the service bulletin.

[Allen Henderson]

Of course there were small, "continuous improvement," changes starting within even the first 901s but According to Lewandowski

[Brett Johnson]

I forgot to mention this here, but most Kardexes from August through December 1965 and into the 1966 calendar year, misidentify 902/1 gearboxes installed in 911s as 901/0. The number series of the latter is 10XXXX while the 902/1 is 22XXXX - 23XXXX. I did write about this in the article in Esses.

[Reno911S]

Just noticed your post about mislabeled 1966 transmission

[davep]

Richard, where do you get 302072 from? I have no record on the car, and only your posts mention it. 302064 is the highest I have data on with a 901/0.

I do not understand your second question with identical VIN's. Certainly nothing was in sequential order; not the completion by VIN, by engine # or by transmission #. We think we know the engine & transmission serial #'s were sequentially assigned as the units were completed in the respective shops; that only makes sense. But I do not have a clear understanding of the assignment of the VIN or chassis #; I do believe that this number was stamped into the body in the body shop (Reutter or Karmann) before delivery to the assembly line. But the actual assignment of the VIN might have been made in the production department when the sales order was received, and the production order was placed; then the production order with the VIN was sent to the body shop to construct the body to the specifications received. The body color, interior specification, and many options were built into the car before it was shipped to the final assembly line for the installation of the suspension and drive train. The delivery of the trimmed bodies to final assembly many not have been in VIN sequence, and they may not have been placed on the line in the same order as received. The order off of the line may not have been in the same sequence as they were placed on it. At least one car I know was received but not completed; or at least the Kardex does not show anything, and the production record book does not list it.

[preS]

302072 is the “highest” number. From 302073 on (“etc”) the 902/1 was standard?
BTW this question came before Brett posted 302104 as being the last which conflicts w above.

Richard