67S 911R clone

[gruen911]

So with bidding ending at under $38,000, and rumor that the current owner spent over $100k to restore the car to its current state, one would be led to assume that "upgrading" a SWB 911S to a 911R clone hurts resale value, not helps it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...57196183QQrdZ1

Does anyone know what the seller's bottom line price on this car is? It looks nice. It surprises me though that there is no mention under the car's description of the engine spec's, no pictures of the underside of the car, and no mention of any suspension or brake upgrades. If all of these were found to be good, I would think that the car would easily get offers of $45k or more? What am I missing?

[ventoGT]

Looks like a nice car--go to the European Collectibles website and give the guy a call--one thing, at least with 356s that he has, they are not normally on the cheap end of the spectrum.

You should be able to call over and discuss the car regardless...

[sithot]

So with bidding ending at under $38,000, and rumor that the current owner spent over $100k to restore the car to its current state, one would be led to assume that "upgrading" a SWB 911S to a 911R clone hurts resale value, not helps it.

Does anyone know what the seller's bottom line price on this car is? It looks nice.

Garth:

You didn't miss anything. Over-priced. That's why it ran out of gas at less than $38K. I think folks are starting to get a bit more skeptical about how much these customized cars are worth. As with anything where you veer from the normal, you narrow the field. The narrower the field, the fewer buyers you have at your disposal.
Most collector cars get hammered (in value) when someone steps over the line and builds or modifies a car to represent what the factory might have done to a racing vehicle. There is nothing wrong with that but you need to understand that not everyone will agree with your tastes and the vast majority of collectors do not want a modified car.
You may do as you please but be willing to accept the consequences of any money thrown at a car that isn't going toward making it original/correct.

Changed colors are strictly verboten among Corvette collectors. You discount the car for the cost to change the color back to original although stupid money sometimes doesn't know any better which is always good for brokers. I await the stupid money party in January.

BTW; Just because someone said it cost $100K doesn't make it so. Just like the $125,000 T.

Tom

[letsrollbabe]

Tom:

All the points you made could also be true for the reverse scenario. Not everyone wants a high priced ($60k +) "refurbished" stock 911, even if it is an S. When you get into that range the buyers do narrow no matter which version you are talking about. Those stock Ss that sell for $60k plus are usually cars that have been restored at a cost of $80-100k. There is no money to be made "restoring" a car that will bring $60k plus, unless it is for a significant collectible car like an RS, RSR, R, ST, etc, which will bring in the true collector who is willing to step up into the 6 digit dollars.

Gib Bosworth
R Gruppe 17
EarlyS 434

[sithot]

Point taken but this car with an "assumed $100K" thrown at it is worth less than a correct original. It is an example for those who would consider throwing good money after bad.

Tom

[tfmcmahon]

Tom,I was the one who originally posted the sale price of the 73.5.I got that directly from Roads Scholars on Friday.It isn`t speculation.I agree with your points on the other issues.If you step up and buy a hot rod or clone,you better love it to death.I`ve been tempted,but I love the original cars too much to go astray and I can live with that.A true original car is a real prize and getting more fun to have as time goes on.Tom

[MarkH]

I was offered this car 10-12 months ago for 40K. EC is now involved
and obviously looking to hit a home run.

[bob tilton]

So with bidding ending at under $38,000, and rumor that the current owner spent over $100k to restore the car to its current state, one would be led to assume that "upgrading" a SWB 911S to a 911R clone hurts resale value, not helps it.

"Resale value"...what's that?

[letsrollbabe]

Tom:

I think the jury is still out on what this R clone will bring. Not many cars like this sell on ebay. It is just a beginning dialog with potential buyers. My guess is that this car will bring pretty close to what a restored 67S would bring. The reason? When you take a car like this to a gathering it will attract more attention than a stock S...as there usually are a lot of those around...but not many that look like this car. There are plenty of guys with the money who would rather have something that not a lot of other guys have. This car will still get respect as a clone because it is still an S in performance, and it still has that S in the S/N.

Gib

[PJenkins]

I have to agree with Gib.

There should be a fairly decent market for this car and eBay is simply cheap advertising. eBay is by no means the "fair market"...$1700 for hood mounted Cibie's??? Having been in the market for cars on eBay I simply do not like it. Too often you might be bidding against the seller's friend, or perhaps the person you are bidding against has no intention of buying it.

I have listed cars on eBay and after the auction was complete the high bidder regarded it as first right of refusal.

The work on this car should have been documented a little better. Judging from the few pictures there are quite a few rare parts involved here. On the motor if that is a real amber 911R shroud? Those are certainly 911R tall intakes and maybe 46ida Webers? Right there, those parts are worth $6000. The passenger seat appears to be a real 911R seat, the same as in Bill Noon's car...$2000. Deep sixes on the front, factory roll bar...the list goes on.

The only glaring issue is the fiberglass fenders...should be steel.

If you went over the whole car and considered all these parts and tried to find them yourself it would take you years. That is if you can stomach bidding against Armando on Ebay or any of the other shrude buyers who know these parts well. Unless of course you wanted to pay Edmond Harris. Then consider the time to make this car.

I think this car is a huge steal at $40K. With a little money it could be even better as Gib pointed out. Why the motor is not twin plugged I don't know. Twin plug it, add screens and 911R rain covers on the carbs and you have that much more to look at when you open the engine lid.

A couple of enhancements and FIA papers and this car could bring even more money with the strength of the Euro.

To put it in perspective anyone would have to simply look at either of Armando's website. He has more time into his 914/6 GT than he does his RSR and there is good documentation of what is entailed in a project of this nature. We are not talking about someone slapping some flares on a 4 cylinder 914 and putting a six conversion in there and calling it a GT.

This one is essentially ready to go, no time involved in hunting parts or building it, and at a discount!