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Thread: F. Porsche designed race car resurfaces

  1. #1
    Senior Member 911scfanatic's Avatar
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    F. Porsche designed race car resurfaces

    From FoxNews website:

    NEW YORK — A rare Nazi-era race car hidden in a German mine shaft during World War II and said to be worth millions of dollars has gone on display.

    The sleek silver D-Type from Audi forerunner Auto Union is to be on display for two days through Friday at the car company's fancy showroom on Park Avenue. It will be auctioned as part of Christie's Retromobile auto sale on Feb. 17 in Paris. The anonymous seller expects it to fetch $12 million to $15 million.

    While Adolf Hitler gave about 500,000 reichsmarks to Auto Union and Mercedes-Benz to promote racing and technology, the car is not specifically affiliated with the Third Reich, Christie's said.

    The car, one of only two in existence, is thought to be the grandfather of modern race cars. It revolutionized racing by putting the driver in front of the engine instead of behind it and reached speeds up to 185 mph.

    "This car was really quite ahead of its time," said Rupert Banner, head of Christie's International Motor Cars division. "It was revolutionary. It changed the face of racing."

    More than 20 Auto Union series cars were built between 1933 and 1939. This model, which has a body shaped like an airplane fuselage, was designed by Ferdinand Porsche. The driver sits sunken into the body of the metal, and the wheels, which look like oversized bicycle tires, have independent suspension.

    "There was a kind of memory loss after the war," said Audi historian Thomas Erdmann. "It took really until the early 1960s and later on to the 1980s for car design to catch up to these cars."

    During the European motorsports heyday just before World War II, the D-Type won the 1939 French Grand Prix. The Silver Arrow, as it was known, also was filmed winding through country roads for use in newsreels across Europe. In racing, German cars were always silver, British were racing green and French were blue.

    During World War II, Auto Union workers hid the cars in a mine shaft in eastern Germany to avoid using them for scrap metal. After the war, the Russians discovered the cars and took them to their own country, along with dismantled Auto Union factories, to re-create motorsports.

    "They vanished, lost behind the Iron Curtain," Erdmann said.
    Bill G.

    1968 911 Ossi Blue coupe...full restoration in process
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  2. #2
    Senior Member CurtEgerer's Avatar
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    Porsche did not design the D-Type and anybody bidding on this car would know that I'm sure. It is an evolution of the Porsche-designed C-type. More here:

    http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...n&pagenumber=2

  3. #3
    Senior Member 911scfanatic's Avatar
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    wow, those dudes on the mothership are all over the map.
    Bill G.

    1968 911 Ossi Blue coupe...full restoration in process
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  4. #4
    Senior Member CurtEgerer's Avatar
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    That's an understatement .....

    BTW, the History Channel ran it's 'Porsche & Nazis' program yesterday morning again. Anyone who denies the close link between Porsche, Hitler, Auto Union and Mercedes is living in fantasyland. It's like they say at the end of the show, either Porsche knew nothing or he knew everything. I think the Nazi money/connection was simply a means to an end for Porsche - the end being to design and build the ultimate automobiles.

  5. #5
    Jared Rundell - Registered User JCR's Avatar
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    That'd be a goof of epic stature on Christie's part... to get the designer of what could be a record setting car at auction wrong.

    Also, I believe it was Sargeant Schultz who "knew nothing".
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  6. #6
    Senior Member CurtEgerer's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blSWIPHu4M0


    <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/blSWIPHu4M0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/blSWIPHu4M0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

  7. #7
    Senior Member 911scfanatic's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've seen that one before Curt. Old Ferdinand knew what was up. He was all about building the cars and was willing to look the other way. Either that or he had zero common sense whatsoever and didn't get out of the house or read the paper much
    Bill G.

    1968 911 Ossi Blue coupe...full restoration in process
    Done: Engine; transmission; suspension; gauges; wheels; rust repair & primer; brakes; paint
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Jim Garfield's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that it's accurate to say that Ferdinand didn't design the D Type, he at least had input and was involved in the design. I think that it's true that it can be considered an evolution of the C Type and according to Ferry in his autobiography * We at Porsche * both he and his father were very involved in the program at Auto Union from the start until they pulled the plug when the war started. As a matter of fact they also oversaw work on the new 12 cylinder 1.5 liter car that was being developed in anticipation of the 1940 Grand Prix formula which was scrapped because of the war.

    As for Ferdinand and Ferry's relationship with Hitler, this book is a must read to really understand how apolitical and naive Ferdinand was, and how Hitler used his skill at rebuilding an economy ravaged by the depression to gain support and implement an agenda that wasn't initially apparent.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Jim Garfield's Avatar
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    I'm embarassed to say that my post above contained some inaccurate information. I last read Ferry's autobiography two or three years ago and I made the mistake of trusting my memory rather than checking the book before I posted. In looking through the book this morning I found that in fact the Porsche agreement with Auto Union was not renewed at the end 1937. My confusion about the dates I think came about because of Ferry's ongoing interest and accounts in the book about the results that the D Type had in ensuing GPs. He and his father attended many of these races and his fondness for the Auto Union comes through in his telling.

    As to the point about design credit for the D Type, I would still maintain that the car was an evolution of the radical concept of the original A. As in any racing series the cars are constantly being upgraded and refined, and I think that this is the case here. In my mind the concept is the design breakthrough, and the rest is refinement or modification to conform to changing regulations. If asked who designed the 911, would most answer Tony Lapine, Harm Lagaay, or Butzi Porsche?

    I do agree that the wording of the Christie's blurb that "This model, which has a body shaped like an airplane fuselage, was designed by Ferdinand Porsche." is misleading at best.

    edit /spelling
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  10. #10
    Senior Member CurtEgerer's Avatar
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    Here's the actual advert from Christies - no mention of Porsche for some reason. Oh well, it's all auction hype. The car is owned by Abba Kogan who reportedly paid some 10 million pounds for the car several years ago!

    http://www.checkitout.co.uk/autounion/

    These are the guys who build/rebuild/restore/remanufacture the Auto Unions - incredible facility.

    http://www.crosthwaiteandgardiner.com/

    Also, I wonder why so much is made of Porsche's link with Hitler, but nothing ever seems to be made of Enzo Ferrari's link with Mussolini? Ferrari ran the Alfa team who attempted to compete with A-U and M-B during this era.

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