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Thread: Overseas Nightmare

  1. #1

    Overseas Nightmare

    This is unfortunately a sad tale. One I am reluctant
    to, but feel I must, relate.
    I do not wish to flame anyone or to inflame the
    situation so no names will be used.
    About a year ago I was contacted by a European dealer
    about some early 911’s I had. There were three cars he
    wanted. We went through basic descriptions and
    pictures. I invited him or an assignee over to take a
    look at the cars first as that is always the best way
    to assess a car. He said he did not have time and
    wanted to do a quick deal right now, sight unseen for
    all three cars. He made me an offer, under the asking
    price but it was a package deal after all. So I
    accepted the offer.
    That was my first mistake.
    As it happened two other local P club members were
    over and looking at the cars. I told them what
    happened and said it seemed to me a bit hurried and
    perhaps a bit odd. They said the exchange rate was
    very good for Europeans right now and a lot of cars
    were going overseas and selling for good money.
    I should have listened to myself.
    Anyway the cars were sold and shipped. Two months
    later I received a note from the buyer that he was
    very unhappy with the cars; he described them as
    rusted out junks.
    Now the cars were not show cars by any means, rather
    more of the driver category. They were not however
    total rusted out junk. But details can of course be
    argued. Buyers and sellers naturally have different
    opinions. The net was he wanted a partial refund to
    compensate for condition.
    I spoke with my lawyer and some friends. The net was
    that the buyer had agreed to buy the cars in “As is,
    where is, condition with no guarantees or warrantees
    expressed or implied”. This was understood between
    myself and the buyer and also clearly written on the
    bill of sale. As such the consensus was that I was
    under no obligation and should in no way give into
    him.
    I however felt differently. I was upset that the buyer
    was not happy with the deal, for what ever reason I
    just wanted things to be harmonious. So the buyer and
    I agreed on a number and I sent him the refund. He was
    quite satisfied and mailed back that all was well and
    he was now happy with the deal. I was out the money
    but actually I too was happy that it was resolved to
    the satisfaction of all. That was last year. Happy
    ending right?
    Wrong. And this is where it gets very weird.
    The next year I get another note from the buyer,
    similar to the first. He says he cannot sell the cars.
    He now demands that I cover his losses!
    I remind him that we had resolved this issue last
    year. He is unhappy with that and threatens a law
    suit. It’s like a reoccurring nightmare. Am I now to
    expect a new demand each year?
    I turned it all over to my lawyer. He says not to
    worry, these scams happen all the time.
    But still it is upsetting even though I now know that
    this buyer has been involved in other similar
    situations, three for sure that I know of. Even so I
    bear no animosity towards the buyer, additionally this
    is not meant to reflect poorly on our good friends
    across the pond.
    This here is a purely a cautionary tale.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
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    scam

    Tom, I am an attorney in Dallas and run into people like this all too often. There are too many of these types scamming their way through life. You went way beyond what the average person would have done by refunding some of the funds. You gave no warranties or guarantees and this person is just trying to scare you into paying more. Rest assured, he will spend more trying to pursue a frivolous suit against you than he could ever hope to get. Unfortunately, this world is made of con artists. Your attorney should be able to help you through this. I would try not to worry about it, although I know its hard not to.

    Robert Grisham
    Robert

  3. #3
    Tom,
    That's a shame, if you felt you represented cars fairly and this guy bought them w/o inspection he then assumed all the risk. This is just a chest thumping exercise, let your attorney deal with it that's why they make the big bucks. I have to admit as these cars rise in value it's seems the sleazeballs are becoming more prevalent in the early 911 world, too bad for all the decent folks out there that just want to have some fun.
    Phil

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    sad sad story

    Wow Tom, that sounds like a very sad story and experience. Wouldn't it very be interesting to hear the buyers side of the story too or even see actual pics of the cars? Sometimes a story suddenly sounds totally different if one has some information or facts from the other side too.
    Mike, member #841

  5. #5
    Goldmember ttweed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike66
    Wow Tom, that sounds like a very sad story and experience. Wouldn't it very be interesting to hear the buyers side of the story too or even see actual pics of the cars?
    Hmmmm, there seems to be a number of similarities in the details of Tom's story and the one you have told in this thread. Is your sarcasm meter turned up to "HIGH" here, or is this just a serendipitous coincidence?

    Whatever was the outcome of your problems with the car you bought in LA and posted about needing an attorney in early 2006? It seems you have had very poor luck buying cars "sight unseen" for your hobby-business. Maybe a change in tactics is overdue?

    TT
    Tom Tweed
    Early S Registry #257
    R Gruppe #232
    Rennlist Founding Member #990416-1164
    PCA National DE Instructor
    Read my surf novel!

  6. #6
    Peter Kane

    '72 911S Targa
    Message Board Co-Moderator - Early 911S Registry #100

  7. #7
    Senior Member
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    I would say that Tom (Dance) has already gone a lot further than most people would have done (including me).

    You should certainly not be feeling guilty & in no way should you reimburse the buyer further...
    Andy

    Early 911S Reg #753
    R Gruppe #105

  8. #8
    Robert, Phil, Andy, and all. Thanks so much for the comments, really an unsavory subject.
    Contrast this deal to another 911 I sold. The buyer, an early S member, did the long trip, checked out the car himself, drove it, liked it, made an offer and took it home. That's the way I'd like things to go. Then everybodys happy. Unfortunately I'm hearing now from others that this other thing has happend to them also.
    Tom

  9. #9
    Nick D member #403 nickd's Avatar
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    Heh, I'm Surprised The European Dealer Didn't Say The Cars Were Stolen During Shipping So You Owe'd Him All The Money !!

    You've Done More Than Enough In My Book, I Wonder How He Treats His Clients !!!
    Nick D - Run Flat

    1973 RHD 911 Carrera RS #0358 - Fun Car
    2016 Cayenne Diesel - Tow Car
    2017 Macan S - Better Half's Car

    1955 356 Speedster SOLD
    1976 911 2.7 SOLD
    2006 Cayman S SOLD
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    2008 Carrera S F77 SOLD
    2011 Cayenne S TOTALLED (T-Boned but kept us safe)
    2015 Macan S SOLD
    2015 GT3 - Track Car
    2016 Cayenne SOLD
    2016 Cayenne GTS TOTALLED (Bloody big deer)

    Still looking for 1st Edition Carrera RS book #358.

    Life is way too short to drive boring cars.

  10. #10
    Senior Member demo's Avatar
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    I have sold 6-8 cars to Mike. Never any issues, a man of his word. Always pays promptly, easy to get along with. He just wants to get, what was represented. A seller needs to disclose the good, bad & ugly when selling to Europe. If the ugly pictures had been sent, the cars would not have been purchased. Its unfortunate that there needs to be "buyer beware". If all sellers would disclose the short comings of the cars condition, we could all be aware, instead of beware.

    SD

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