Do I want a 72/73s Targa....or a Valium?

[Microgator]

Background: A trip to the Rennsport Reunion confirmed my affection for the early 911 as a "classic" sports car. Beautiful lines, an array of happy colors, the chrome ringed headlamps....on and on. Guess I don't need to tell you guys .

During a trip to the local Porsche dealership a few days earlier I drove an incredible 2008 Targa 4S. Sticker of $113K with a guaranteed depreciation of $33K over the 1st 2 years.

A review of Sports Car Market (SCM) showed the 1972/3 Targa S to be a "special car" with a likelihood of appreciation. Price range 20-40K! Unless set ablaze, unlikely to depreciate $33K over the next 2 years.

The Dilemma: From review of this board and the comments I have seen, there is not such a thing as a 911s of this period for between 20 and 40K. At least, not one I would want after reading your comments. I live in North Central Florida and don't have access (or maybe I do and don't know it) to the expertise necessary to take a barn find and turn it into a "good" car.

What I want: I am hoping to get a Porsche that I can enjoy on weekends, polish up, learn to tinker with, look at and smile, and take to the occasional vintage rally, all the while becoming part of a community of folks who are as nuts about these cars as I am.

Question: Should I just spend the money (if so, how much is reasonable for a "good but not great" car), or, for the prices I have seen out there, look for a 2005 S and start late911sregistry.org ? I guess what I am saying is that I have the money in the budget to buy a decent version of an early S but wonder whether the money is better spent on a different model and maybe a current "frenzy" will die down and the cars will return to the place that SCM thinks they now occupy? Also, can I get some advice on how to find the "right" car? Ebay cars look shiny but the board has worried me about these. Also, there are online dealers that seem to have some of these cars, but negative comments abound. If a long-time registry member and early S owner would be willing to take me under their wing, I would really appreciate the advice and counsel.

Side note: After a recommendation from a member on this board I got Peter Zimmerman's book "The Used 911 Story". In it he says "Unless the "perfect" 1972 911 can be found, it might be a good idea to look elsewhere". This does not jive with anything else I have been told about the 72. Did his first girlfriend dump him in this car or is there something I am missing?

Thanks for reading my lengthy post and for any advice you can offer.

[Tom F.]

I think that Zimmerman's comments were mostly directed to the ridiculous sealing arrangement for the input shaft on the 72 transmissions. The transmission has to be disassemble to change it. So, from a mechanic's standpoint, the 72s could be a pain. Also, the MFI systems can be unreliable, especially in day to day use. It was not unheard of for these systems to dump so much fuel that the oil would become heavily diluted, leading to serious engine problems. Of course, that was then, and now that these cars are more collectibles than transportation, these practical concerns are less important.

This is just opinion, however. I owned a 72 for several years, and I really liked it. In retrospect, the one thing that I would have done differently was to leave it with the Webers that it came with, instead of restoring the MFI. Also, if I had a generous budget, I would only consider a car with sport seats.

[Microgator]

Tom:

Thanks for the clarification. I guess that was changed for the 73 model. The 915 was new in 72, right?

Can you shed any light on the best place to search for a car?

Thanks,

Jason

[berettafan]

In re. to PZ's '72 comment I'm not sure why the opinion of a guy who admitedly spent $70k fixing up an SC (or was it a Carrera?) is considered worthy of consideration. soul-less nonsense IMO. comments like that are better suited to late model Buick buying guides not classic sports cars.


The early car is not likely to drop a ton in value and, as you mentioned, almost can't drop as much as a new 911 WILL. If you are just looking for FUN then buy the nicest early car you can find regardless of designation (T,E or S).


----edited middle paragraph; Ed Cave captured it perfectly in the first paragraph below! end of discussion right there!----

[2POINT7]

Jason,

As an owner of both Early and later 911's and based very specifically on your statement: "What I want: I am hoping to get a Porsche that I can enjoy on weekends, polish up, learn to tinker with, look at and smile, and take to the occasional vintage rally, all the while becoming part of a community of folks who are as nuts about these cars as I am." I can tell you without hesitation, you want an Early 911.........For every one of those reasons.

On finding one, my advice would be:

• Be patient. There are always some for sale but not always one you want to own. Repeat after me, "I will not buy a car with rust issues".
  
• Physically see the car you plan to buy before committing to it or be sure to have a PPI done by someone you can absolutely trust.
  
• Expect to find the kind of car you describe in a price range of $35k to $50k.
  
• Invest your money in something that will at least retain its value and likely appreciate, not the opposite (sounds like you already know that).
  
• Most of all, be prepared to enjoy the car more than you ever imagined. These cars are so much fun to drive, especially when compared to a modern example.

And finally, hang around this venue. You'll find the best ownership opportunities, advice and direction right here. Good luck with your search and keep us posted on your progress.

[JCR]

I think that Zimmerman's comments were mostly directed to the ridiculous sealing arrangement for the input shaft on the 72 transmissions. The transmission has to be disassemble to change it. So, from a mechanic's standpoint, the 72s could be a pain.

Wevo offers a fairly inexpensive retrofit modification for this issue.... which also applies to the early 1973 build cars. MFI is very reliable, IF it is properly set up to start... but it's all about the sounds, response and PUSH it gives.

The new cars are so damn good, I think driving them on the street tends to be an exercise in frustration. If you get to the point where you are in the neighborhood of beginning to approach limits... you are going insanely fast for public roads. Conversely, you can give an early ride a very satisfying and rewarding workout on public roads without risking jail.

- and let's not forget, the early guys are a LOT more fun than the late guys!! And it sounds like you'll fit right in. I have made a lot of great friends by getting into an early car, one of the best things about it.

No brainer.

[Microgator]

Ed

Thanks for the feedback.....

• Be patient. There are always some for sale but not always one you want to own. Repeat after me, "I will not buy a car with rust issues".
  
  OK, "I will not buy a car with rust issues...." How do I know if it has rust issues -- fancy paintjobs look so nice ?
  
• Physically see the car you plan to buy before committing to it or be sure to have a PPI done by someone you can absolutely trust.
  
  I will definitely check with the board for help on getting a PPI wherever my new baby is to be found...However, how do I alert a group of early 911 lovers to the location of my new baby without having someone try to take her home themselves
  
• Expect to find the kind of car you describe in a price range of $35k to $50k.
  
  I am OK with this range if I find the "right" one.
  
• Invest your money in something that will at least retain its value and likely appreciate, not the opposite (sounds like you already know that).
  
  I'm with you on this!! My dad's financial advice to me before his departure....rule #1 Don't lose money, rule #2 "Refer to rule number one"....having said that, he also encouraged me to 'have fun' and I realize that a portion of the money that I spend on this endeavor is purely for entertainment.
  
• Most of all, be prepared to enjoy the car more than you ever imagined. These cars are so much fun to drive, especially when compared to a modern example.
  
  Yes, yes....want a car to enjoy...yes, want one......ooops back to the patience thing.
  

And finally, hang around this venue. You'll find the best ownership opportunities, advice and direction right here. Good luck with your search and keep us posted on your progress.[/QUOTE]

No success yet....again with the patience thing!

[maverick]

Yoy have a Pm. Mitch

[210bhp]

If I lived in The States I would be checking this car out with a PPI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-...QQcmdZViewItem


Is it far from you?

Regards
Mike

[a911s]

Tom:

Thanks for the clarification. I guess that was changed for the 73 model. The 915 was new in 72, right?

Jason

Yup, '72 is the first year of the 915.

Actually the input shaft seal issue is blown way out of proportion by Zimmerman (it's a bent input shaft that causes most of these leak problems), plus most '73s have the same issue anyway (the seal location was not changed until March of '73, more than 1/2 way thru 1973 production). His book is pretty inaccurate in terms of what model is desirable nowadays.

Some rust is present in just about every early 911 (unless it's recently been nut and bolt restored). What you want to look for is rust in the jack points, suspension mounts, doors and fender crevices. You can become educated by looking at a bunch of cars, and unless you have an expert to help you that's what I'd do - look at a bunch of cars first. If MFI came on the car, you want it - when it is set up correctly, it's the best. Patience and knowledge will help you avoid the bad cars (probably over half the cars that are offered for sale). The classifieds here are a much better bet. Good luck!