questions about 1969 911 w/3.0

[Lukin]

I have come across a 1969 911 with a 1979 3.0 liter. I am new to the Porsche buying experience but believe I can get a fair price on this car. I have a number of concerns and wanted to get some outside opinions before throwing down the cash.

The car is in good shape. According to the owner is went through a frame-off rebuild within the last 6 years. He did not own the car at the time but has complete video and paper documentation of the rebuild. I could not find rust during my garage inspection but it looks like the underbody has been completely recoated. The odometer reads 98,612 and the rebuild was done at 94,000. Of course this is not the original engine so I'm not really sure how long the motor has been in this car.

My first question is how significant does a different model year motor impact the value of the car? And what are your opinions on the 3.0 79' vintage?

Secondly, whoever restored the car added flared fenders along with new bumpers and a tail to resemble a Carrera 2, it even has Carrera 2 wheels on it. This is not really to my liking. Aside from the fenders I would like to retro the car to resemble a 69'. Should I be aware of any common pitfalls when trying to remove plastic bumper pieces in favor the original equipment?

I think this car would be a great way to get into Porsche ownership and could be a good investment. I'm assuming so long as I don't do anything stupid this car will retain its value and will be a sound investment to turn in the future. The seller is asking $10,500 for it. I estimate I'll need to sink in $2000 to get it where I want it. I'll post pics when I get a chance. Any input is appreciated. Thanks for your help.

[berettafan]

this is going to sound a bit snobbish but i would be very hesitant to trust the workmanship of someone that tried to make a '69 look like a C2. nor would i be inclined to trust such a person's choice of wrench/body guy if the work was subbed out.

the term 'frame off' implies a basic lack of understanding of 911's on the owners part as well and does not cause warm and fuzzies.

from a collectibility pov the p/o has pretty much guaranteed that such a word can not be used in reference to this car until many, many thousands of dollars have been spent righting things (and by many, many i most definitely do not mean $2,000).

in short, as it sits right now there is nothing collectible about the car. if you would choose to save it (assuming rust free chassis.... ) you can certainly change that.

Erik

btw, the motor, to me, is a very minor issue in terms of utility.

[berettafan]

oh, aren't C2's kinda flat on the sides? not sure what you mean about flares with a C2 look.

also, i would have a pro body guy look at the video evidence of the restoration and ask for comments on the quality of the work (butt welds vs. lap on the flares, thoroughness of prep, etc).

[SandyI]

A well-engineered 3.0 transplant can be a great early 911 driving experience. The mid-range torque of that engine is outstanding. Not sure where you're planning to spend that $2,000. Returning the car back to a '69 body, it'll be pretty easy to spend $10,000. Or much more. Have you driven the car?

[Lukin]

Thanks for the input. I have not driven the car yet. Waiting for good weather.

Here are some pics of the car. I'm not sure what I'll find under the side skirts and bumpers.

[berettafan]

pass on that car.

IF it is an S there may be someone out there willing to save it.

[37yrold911]

If in good shape underneath, it is worth $10k to someone with space and the desire to work on it.

Pull the parts off and sell them; leave the motor and make a '69 hotrod out of it. Or sell the motor for 2-3k if in good shape. The unit body is worth something also with a proper motor in it.

It is as far from the taste of most of this bbs as you can get. But they are concoursey types. They are right that it is damaged beyond cost-effective restoration (for what they like).

But it could be a fine rat-rod with work.

[JCR]

Interesting - when this car was modified, it was probably worth $5-6k, and a then new C2 over ten times that. Now the "donor" 69 would have been worth multiples over a C2... which I now see going as low as $13k.

I say, if no rust and it runs well, offer $8k, take off the silly wing and just drive it. Not cost effective to restore back to a longhood. If you want that look, you can get a nice '69 912 in the $10k range (for now anyway). They are great cars as I have recently discovered firsthand. You could even put a 3.2 in the back if you want torque (but don't tell the 912 folks I suggested this).

[denizen224]

I say, if no rust and it runs well, offer $8k, take off the silly wing and just drive it. Not cost effective to restore back to a longhood. If you want that look, you can get a nice '69 912 in the $10k range (for now anyway). They are great cars as I have recently discovered firsthand. You could even put a 3.2 in the back if you want torque (but don't tell the 912 folks I suggested this).

Agreed... This could be a good way to get into "Porsche ownership" but you'd definitely be upside-down trying to putting the body back to original. You'll never recoup S money out of it, especially with a non-original or even non-correct drivetrain (correct but non-original meaning right vintage, wrong serial number). It's definitely not an "investment" vehicle and $2k won't get you very far at all for all it'd need to even get it looking right. My '69 S is much closer to original than yours (and I know where the original tranny is and have a lead on the original engine), but it'd be a pipe dream thinking it's anything more for me than a fun driver until rehab'd early S'es get near six figures. If you still disagree at this point, I've still got a few dot.com stocks I'll let you have for a good deal...

For early cars in particular, a non-original and non-correct engine would have a huge impact on value. That's at least a portion of the low offering price here. OTOH the 3.0 engine in it, if well built and maintained, is a really solid motor and would prove a fun ride. If the car is put together well, solid, runs and drives well and you'd be happy with something just to play with then it could be a good buy. But don't fool yourself into thinking it's a second copy of the Mona Lisa with just a moustache that needs to be retouched.

[Paul Schooley]

It's a difficult thing buying your first Porsche without a lot of knowledge beforehand. The seller can tell ya anything he/she wants to if it makes the sale. This car looks like a nice driver if it's truly rust free but certainly has little investment value at this point but that certainly could change down the road if things keep escalating the way they are. The bummer is when people change longhoods to short, put outrageous fender flares and big honkin tails on them. Sure makes it difficult (spelled $$$$$$$$$$$$) to return to it's original state and be worth anything close to the amount of money spent to get there.

Good luck in your purchase. Of course, the beauty of that car is in the eye of the owner. I don't know why and I would never do it myself, but I love the look of the slantnose kits when done right. Custom is custom.