Disappearing Threads, Flippers, Dealers and Other Rants

[reed]

I have always considered this Board primarily a place where like-minded enthusiasts come to discuss their love of early 911s--any model--and help each other out. If some commerce gets done along the way that's fine too.

However, it's becoming increasingly difficult to overlook some "members" thinly veiled attempt to profit from their involvement on this Board. Again, money is not a bad thing, but when it's the primary motivation for someone's participation here, I think that needs to be disclosed in some way so that others know. I treat a merchant differently than an enthusiast. Not worse, just different.

What has prompted me to post this are two recent for-sale ads by board member SyarMotorsport. In each, other members pointed out the cars' prior sales history. One was still being advertised on the PCA website and the other had been listed on Pelican in mid-November. Both cars were being offered by SyarMotorsportat at a $7,500 premium. Both ads/threads quickly disappeared upon this disclosure.

Now, I don't expect anyone to cut another board member a sweetheart deal, but did SyarMotorsport really think he was offering a service to us by picking cars off Pelican and PCA and flipping them over here a few weeks later with a hefty markup? I highly doubt it. It's not like he's scouring the countryside for hidden cars or using connections in the business to unearth his inventory. He cruising the same websites that we all are; he’s trying to make a quick buck.

A similar situation involving board member mycarrera2.7rs is going on over at Pelican and raises the same questions. Again, I think dealers advertising on this website are fine. I look forward to seeing what Paul-HB is offering. He gets interesting cars and I enjoy seeing them. I’d just like to know who the dealers are. Disappearing threads don’t help that situation.

With the increased traffic on this Board and the increased value of these cars, maybe it's time to set some rules for the marketplace forums. Let the dealers advertise, but let’s set clear rules that distinguish between the enthusiast who occasionally sells a personal car and a dealer who is moving his inventory. For example, someone who has advertised more than a couple of cars over a year period would most likely qualify as a commercial user in my book and should pay for his commercial use of this Board. And we users would all benefit by knowing who we are dealing with.

Sorry for the long rant, but I felt these sales tactics needed to be discussed and the Board needs to address them.

[berettafan]

if you pay attention you can kinda discern who the flippers are and who the 'scouring the countryside and adding value' guys are.

it is probalby not realistic to ask Chuck or anyone else here to police for sale ads and make a determination on the dealer vs. collector status of everyone who lists. and let us not forget that calling somebody a used car dealer, at least where i'm from, is akin to calling their mother a whore. some folks are likely to have their feelings hurt (ie 'i'm a wealthy collector who turns his collection periodically to bring new and interesting cars into the fold, not a common used car lot!').

[garrege]

maybe Chuck can at least disable the Delete Thread function.

[SyarMotorsport]

Mr Reed,

FYI - Both of those sellers contacted me and asked for assistance in moving their cars, which they had been attempting to sell for months.

Furthermore the prices posted reflected only current market values, and as most of us know, price is always an opening conversation point anyway.

Your commentary is pompus and uninvited.

As for the other gentleman 'mycarrera2.7' - why would you even wish to comment on a deal which you know very little about -additionally slamming a guys reputation on a deal not your own?
Who knows what conversations took place regarding the condition of the mentioned car- as it could have been all verbal for what we know of it.

What I do know is that 'mycarrera2.7' has a ton of nice cars and would have no need to to mis-represent one of his cars to make an extra couple bucks at the stake of reputation.
He clearly doesnt need the money in my opinion -if youve ever seen his toy collection, and this is too small a community to perform 'rip off' deals -everyone knows that.
I also know that 'mycarrera2.7' told me straight up when I wanted one of his cars that it was great car but 'too rusty for a buyer to want' -eventhough it was a 72 sunroof S -though I did want to hear otherwise.

So fine Mr. Reed, keep running people off that dont cater to what you want to see.
Because of members like you, this board has the reputation that it does - 'S Holes.'
Fortunately Ive been around this stuff long enough to know not everyone is here to attempt to shoot holes in peoples stuff -but believe me, alot of Enthusiast are turned off by the cynics here.

[Chuck Miller]

Some answers, questions and thoughts.....

Disappearing threads

- It is my habit in 'housekeeping' this board to permanently delete all threads that have been already deleted by the poster.
- Unfortunately some 'indictable' info might be swept away with this housekeeping.
- Also, because of the lack of speed of the board, I have to delete a hell'of'a'lot'of duplicated posts just to keep the continuity of the threads…
- It is not my custom to delete any thread that stays within the common civility of this board…

Dealers

This one is much tougher……

- It seems that this community has evolved to the point that if a known nefarious dealer writes a word on this or any of the other active boards, they will be exposed with inquiry or confrontation.
- It also seems to me that if a prospective buyer keeps their 'information' to themselves and does not ask this community for advice they run the risk of being an unknown dealer's pray. Of course, there is the fear that in the asking of this board's advice would expose the potential buyer to the to the undercutting act of one of the board members, or lerkers. Well, I for one would take that risk and ask the advice on the reverse threat of exposing the under cutter…

- As others have mentioned, I would not like to see the elimination of the dealers/brokers because that would limit this community's scope of potential interests…Plus, WHAT definition of 'dealer' is appropriate..?
- The only thing that will always be consistent in dealing with dealers is … BUYER BEWARE

- Also, with the strength and speed of this and other boards, nefarious individuals penetrating or within this small community are truly CUTTING THEIR OWN THROAT….. Do 'they' really think they can EVER deal again once exposed.
- With that, of course, comes the community's responsibility to make perfectly sure of the exposed, and to hear both sides.

- All of this is of little comfort to one who feels they are on wrong end of a greatly anticipated deal that's gone South…


Thanks for all your comments so far………… more to come I'm sure



Holiday Cheers,

[a911s]

My input:

Anyone who is associated with or is a commercial dealer or workshop should put this information in their signature. This is common practice on other specialty boards, and would keep this information above board here.

I also feel that a price should be included in any ads, both WTB and FS.

[berettafan]

agree with Randy.

[Macroni]

I also agree with Randy.

I enjoy the classifieds here it allows you to learn more about the cars. It is an education process as well as a information process. This board has a very educated following and the cars that are displayed for sale are normally of higher quality. The feedback is priceless. I dare say Yale would not be in his predicament if he asked the board's opinion on his purchase.

This board has a critical eye. Don't bring your weak stuff, it isn't tolerated and if that is the price of admission to posting so be it.

[tfiv]

We should also institute some sort of price control, this is just out of hand. I think maybe 10% would be a fair profit for "flippers". Private owners would be entitled to annual appreciation connected somehow to the cost of living index. This is just a start, maybe other members with backrounds in finance could contribute.

[Intheshop]

It seems that "Reed" just wanted dealers to identify themselves to the board. A simple suggestion. It seems he thinks it would make members more cautious when dealing with them. My thinking is people should be cautious when dealing with everybody, particularly relatives, preachers and little old ladies. Be suspecious, only pay what you are willing to pay. It's crazy out there.
--SCOTT