1971 911S brake pads

[Flieger]

I am going to replace my very worn brake pads on my 1971 911S with stock alloy front, rear M caliper setup. I am going to use OEM Ate front and OEM Textar rear pads.

Is this the correct brake-in procedure?

1. A few smooth slowings from 30 mph to 10mph.
2. A few stops from 30 mph.
-let brakes cool by cruising a bit
3. A few steady firm stops from 50 mph.
-let brakes cool
-find open road
4. A few steady, high pressure stops from 70 mph.

After this I can drive as I normally do?(very aggressive street driving)

I see some pads say "100 mile brake-in" or "300 miles break-in period". Does this only apply for those who do not do a bedding in procedure and just drive normally without working the brakes? I figure the bedding in procedure would take 15 miles or so.

[Neunelfer]

Seems fairly normal for organic street pads.

Question; why mismatch the pad manufacturer front and rear?

I found the new PBR Ultimate Ceramic pads are simply amazing if anyone wants to try that route. I just got a front and rear set for Skip's 67 S. They're going on my 911 and 914-6/GT car.

[Flieger]

I needed pads that were not too expensive. I looked on Pelican and they had Textar front, Jurid rear or "Genuine Porsche" for both. I assume the "Genuine Porsche" are really just rebadged Ate,Textar,or Jurid pads. These are the OEM manufacturers.

I do aggressive street driving and do not care about dust. The ceramics in my price range, as well as the Mintex seemed to be more for gentle driving. I do not need fade resistance but I want great initial friction. The ceramics seemed to be for less dust and I could not get enough information on the Mintex.

I figure that mismatching the pads would be the same thing I would get with the "Genuine Porsche", although I did not want to do this.

[Neunelfer]

The ceramics in my price range, as well as the Mintex seemed to be more for gentle driving. I do not need fade resistance but I want great initial friction. The ceramics seemed to be for less dust and I could not get enough information on the Mintex.

I figure that mismatching the pads would be the same thing I would get with the "Genuine Porsche", although I did not want to do this.

The mismatch shouldn't be too big of an issue with the garden variety organic pads. I just like to try to keep the balance with pad compounds the same.

Regarding the ceramics... they are much more agressive than the organics and they do not lower the dust. Those are common traits of "metallic" pads which I never recommend for any Porsche. The ceramics I've begun using (on all my cars) have more of the warm race pad bite but without the warmup period and without the cost. They're $30-35 per set. Very happy with them.

[Flieger]

Thanks for the info. I knew my brakes needed some freshening, but this was ridiculous. I used a hammer more than any other tools.

My front pistons are very sticky and in need of a rebuild. The rears are not as bad but I will do the whole system, of course. I need new dust covers for the pistons, as a couple are very rusty. I need new retaining clips, too.

The right caliper does not seem to be doing any work, confirming my suspisions of a sticky caliper causing my pulling to the left. The inside pad was not worn visibly compared to the new pad. The outside was about 2/3 gone. On the other front, the wear pattern was 1/4 gone on the inside, 2/3 gone on the outside. The rears had equal wear down to 1/3 depth or so.

Both pads on the front caliper are supposed to wear evenly, right?

I might need new rotors; they are a little warped and heat-spotted. While I am in there, I will remove the dust shields and try the PBR ceramic pads. That is a great price and I need to saave all the $$$ I can for the proper brake job.

Thanks for the reply, Neunelfer. I found your S caliper rebuild photo documentary very interesting. I really admire your work.

[Neunelfer]

Max,

Your pads should definately be wearing evenly.

Let me know if you have any questions as you dig into the calipers. You are in need of a full rebuild for sure. If these are S-Calipers, save your dough because it sounds like you'll need pistons. Stoddard has the best prices on pistons.

E.

[NV Stig]

Since mine has been sitting for a decade, I was told that the system would have all sorts of flat spots on the caliper pins, reducing brake response. The brake lines could be cracking and worn. Mater cylinder should be replaced. The guy working on it wouldn't rebuild the calipers due to liability issues.

I was reading an earlier thread where people were praising that Pagid brakes for wear, stopping power and low dust accumulation. I kind of went that way based on the consensus.

I just liked the Zimmermans. Cross drilled rotors have the great benefits of cooling and increased drying characteristics in wet conditions. Besides, they look really cool, and a little new technology can't hurt on this car right

[Neunelfer]

Since mine has been sitting for a decade, I was told that the system would have all sorts of flat spots on the caliper pins, reducing brake response. The brake lines could be cracking and worn. Mater cylinder should be replaced. The guy working on it wouldn't rebuild the calipers due to liability issues.

News to me... flat spots on pins? Won't work on calipers? I think it's easier to sell new calipers than to restore or rebuild old ones.

I'll take your cores

Good idea to get new soft lines. The old saying is; "If you don't know when they were replaced last... replace them." Cheap insurance.

I'm a fan of drilled rotors. You'll get all sorts of replies about cracks etc. but for venting hot gases they do work. I believe you'll see them through the wheels on the latest CGT. I use them on both my cars. The 914-6/GT car had them cryo'd. 911 is more street duty and they're just stock Brembo sports.

[NV Stig]

You may be right.
I rebuilt my calipers on my old Rabbit back in the day in high school. Didn't have any problems with it. the guy working on my car is really adamant about the caliper issue. We debated the subject a little. He was really concerned about the down time on the car and the braking system as a whole. Came down to this: You have a fast car on windy roads. What piece of mind do you want when you come roaring into a turn on HWY 28 and you are staring at a cliff going into Lake Tahoe. Got to admit, it made my confidence waver. The new brake system feels like cheap insurance in the long run.
Do you really want the old calipers Neunelfer?

[Neunelfer]

Do you really want the old calipers Neunelfer?

Yes Sir... those will make someone some fine brakes some day.

What year and model is your car?

You know... I understand what he's saying and I understand your confidence issues etc.; these things are not rocket science though. These are very nice castings of high quality steel. When you strip them to bare metal, replate them and hone the cylinders (aside from stress fractures which can happen) a restored caliper will be as good as new.

His story reminds me of an ex-girlfriend; Toyota Camary with the "free" oil changes for a year. Each time she came in there as some "Life Threatening" issue with her car. "You have children right? I wouldn't drive another mile on those brake pads... etc., etc."

Your situation is a bit different and there's two schools there... both are correct so, in the end, you made the decision that's right for you. I don't want to incinuate that he was trying to scam you either. It sounds like he may have had confidence issues with calipers as well. He was loaded with good advice about the lines and M/C as well. All definate "must do's" in my book for a car that has sat that long. Not many shops want to tie up their lifts for a couple of weeks while the vintage 911 calipers are being restored.

We have a full set of 66 911 calipers and 68 911S calipers in-house for restoration now. They've been sitting for a long, long time. They'll be fine.

I'm convinced you did the right thing as well.