Price check: cylinders and pistons for '67S rebuild

[Sacto S]

Are pistons and cylinders for a '67S out there and is so, what should I expect to pay for them?

Project on the near horizon and I don't want to face sticker shock when the time comes.

[gruen911]

FWIW, I bought set 5 years ago for $750. They were almost perfect. I have seen sets recently go for $1200-1500. If you have a 911 66 or 67 normale, you already have the biral cylinders. You would only need to buy a set of JE pistons for like $800. JE will let you choose your compression level too - although 9.8:1 is pretty high already for a non twin plugged street car using premium 93 octane US pump gas.

[kenikh]

FWIW, I bought set 5 years ago for $750. They were almost perfect. I have seen sets recently go for $1200-1500. If you have a 911 66 or 67 normale, you already have the biral cylinders. You would only need to buy a set of JE pistons for like $800. JE will let you choose your compression level too - although 9.8:1 is pretty high already for a non twin plugged street car using premium 93 octane US pump gas.

FWIW, I am dropping 'S' pistons into my '65 this week. Seems like a nice upgrade. I had considered selling them, but am now using them. I was planning on asking $700 for the pistons alone, although that really isn't qualified against anything other than my gut.

[tfiv]

Do it once, and do it right. Buy new Mahle Nickasil cylinders barrels and pistons. The compression is not too high, it will work out to about 9:1 (even though advertised at 9.8). When I bought my '67 it had few miles on an engine rebuild. The original pistons and cylinders were deemed within spec and had been re-used and new rings installed. After a few thousand miles of my kind of driving, it smoked like a pig. When we tore it down a scant 10K since the first rebuild, the cylinders were excellent, the pistons looked great, but the top ring land was triple the factory spec. Re-ringing is a patch job, nothing more.

You will face sticker shock, mine were $3600 a year ago. The good news is unless this is a racer, you will likely never open the motor again in your lifetime.

[gruen911]

Tom,
I know you are a long time board member here, but I need to take issue with you here about a few things in your above post.
Where did you read that the early 2.0S P&C's were only 9:1 instead of 9.8:1? The 911 normale P&C's were 9:1, and the extra .8 is one of the few reasons the 2.0S has 30hp more over it's 130hp brother (30hp on a 2.0 motor doesn't just come from more aggresive cams and bigger valves).
Also, you state that re-ringing is a patch job at best.
I understand that you bought a car with a recent rebuild which ended up smoking after just a few thousand miles, but that is not normally the case. The primary wear areas on the P&C's in any car is the rings. As long as the P&C's are in spec, they can be used over and over. The most important thing after a complete rebuild with new rings is to break the car in slowly and at lower rpm's for the first 500-1000 miles. That means letting the car warm up and not pushing the car hard (i.e. rev's under 4,000) so as the let the rings get seated properly. Rings are very delicate and are easily damaged. You canbreak them with your fingers. Sounds like this was the problem with your rebuild experience. If an early 911 motor is built and taken care of properly, the only things that would need replacement would eventually be the main and rod bearings, rings, cam surfaces, and valve job. If you are fortunate enough to find parts from a good used motor that has not had catastrophic damage, there is no reason you couldn't use them again and again.
Lastly, don't know what you mean by in your lifetime, but it is almost expected that any of the earlier engines (prior to the 3.0SC motors anyway) need at least a top end refreshing after 80k. I guess if you only put 2000 miles a year on the car and you are 50 years old, no rebuild will be needed in your lifetime. I am 46, and I put at least 5-7k miles on my car per year. I will definitely expect to do a rebuild in my lifetime - unless my PITA girlfriend and two young daughters don't send me to an early grave

[tom1394racing]

I've got early 2.0 pistons avaialble in sets and can match them with a set of 80mm birals.

PM me for details if you are interested in good used 2.0 pistons.

[tfiv]

Gruen, Sorry if I came off a little strong.

I'm aware that the advertised CR is 9:8, but when you do the actual calculation, deck height, combustion chamber volume etc. the actual ratio turns out not to be as high. With my original pistons the CR came in at slightly less than 9:1, with the new ones it was right at 9:1. From what I've been told, you can pretty much expect that with factory parts, your engine has probably a half of a point lower compression than what the spec book says.

As far as the rings go, the first rebuild was done by a very reputable shop and I'm sure everything was within the spec when the engine was re-assembled, but the owner was looking for ways to save money. The spec bear in mind is the absolute outer wear limit for a part. So, "in spec" does necessarily mean the part is good as new. In fact, it could mean it's a tick from the recycling can. When a new ring is installed, it grabs a bit better than the old one, has more room to move, and very soon you are way beyond the spec. A little later they move around so much that they start breaking. I guess my point is, be very careful about used parts if you don't like doing things twice. When you are buying a car with a rebuilt engine, if you don't see a receipt for new pistons and cylinders, you almost always find other cut corners. I knew this when I bought my car, my builder told me it was coming.

The lifetime comment might be an exaggeration, but 2.0s are really tough and the new cylinders really last in normal use. Now a guy like Chuck Miller will see another rebuild! Myself, living in rainy Oregon, with multiple old cars to hardly drive, it will probably last me a lifetime.

[Bobs 67S]

Bought a used set last year from a reputable master restoration & rebuild shop in VT. (It took a little conversation to get him to do the deal because new ones at that time had been on back order from Mahle for over a year.)

Ring lands were in spec., balanced, matched height size and weight, not a lot of broken fins, etc. Paid $1250.

Price on a new set is closer to $3900 with shipping and Wayne has them listed as in stock.