1973 911T Brake Suspension Upgrade

[healeykit]

Hello Everyone

I have a 1973T targa with a 3.2 and 915 from an SC. The car has what appears to be original brakes and suspension with M struts (3" spacing).

I use the car as a fast road car and daily driver. Some day I'd like to do some drivers ed and track days with the car but that would be very limited usage. My main priority is drivability.

The car has been lowered and corner balanced already. I find it handles and rides very well already but the braking is wimpy - (doesn't bite very hard).

My questions are as follows:

For my purposes are there any basic brake upgrades that would have a significant improvement in braking ie: some drilled or slotted rotors (like Zimmerman or Performance friction stuff) with some different pads? May be also a complete service on the brake system with new hoses.

Or should I go to 3.5" spacing struts and then move towards a 964/930/carrera brake set-up?

Third question if I'm going to do option #2 is there a large enough benefit to swapping in a complete carrera suspension to justify the cost and work involved?

I've searched the threads here and found partial answers to these questions - but if I've missed a thread with this info please let me know.

As always any guidance is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Mark

[jhora]

For my purposes are there any basic brake upgrades that would have a significant improvement in braking ie: some drilled or slotted rotors (like Zimmerman or Performance friction stuff) with some different pads? May be also a complete service on the brake system with new hoses.

Mark.....start with a "complete service" first with new HP fluid and new very good pads....it is amazing what a rebulid with very good pads will do to a tired old brake system.....less expensive too....you will find it is great for the street and you can do driver events also....good luck...John

[Chuck Miller]

Mark,

For the first step I would agree with John.......... If you want to go with a 'next' step for what you do, and are planning to do, with your car I would suggest this...

If your struts permit, (and if not upgrade)
For the front I'd go with SC 'Iron' brakes. They have about the same pad area as the alloy S brakes but at a fraction of the cost. I'd keep your stock rears and switch to an aggressive 'street' pad on all 4.... Like Pagid 'black'.

I would also suggest you go with steel braided brake hoses.

Between the SC iron brakes, steel hoses, and aggressive street pads, you'll have excellent braking with a nice firm pedal....

If you live in a warm dry climate, I would also suggest removing the 'rain shields' from the back of your front hubs.... brake cooling is much more efficient without them..

These are all things I have done to my '73S for the street and track with minimum expense and very good results....

Hope this helps,
Cheers

[Bert]

Hi Chuck,

Do you have Pagid "Black" pads on your blue car?

Just wondering if these pads are very dusty or noisy for a street car.

Thanks,

Bert

Mark,


For the front I'd go with SC 'Iron' brakes. They have about the same pad area as the alloy S brakes but at a fraction of the cost. I'd keep your stock rears and switch to an aggressive 'street' pad on all 4.... Like Pagid 'black'.

These are all things I have done to my '73S for the street and track with minimum expense and very good results....

Hope this helps,
Cheers

[a911s]

When I received it, my old '72T RS look coupe had a 3.2L with stock T brakes. I found these inadequate for any track work even with brake shield delete, aggressive pads, steel lines, and Motul fluid. So I swapped in S brakes and struts since I had them already. This was better, but I would probably go straight to Carrera brakes, Turbo brakes, or even better 964 C2 brakes, if you plan on keeping the car a long time and tracking it often. If you are only going to track the car occasionally, SC front brakes and struts with Porterfield pads should be all you need.

[Chuck Miller]

Bert,

Yes, I run the Pagid black street pads......

No, they are not noisy....
Yes, they throw a medium amount of dust...

Cheers

[Bert]

Bert,

Yes, I run the Pagid black street pads......

No, they are not noisy....
Yes, they throw a medium amount of dust...

Cheers

Good to know.

Thanks Chuck.

[Neunelfer]

Hi Mark,

Here's my take:

1. New ATE Super Blue Racing Fluid. New Pagids front and rear. Stock rubber lines.
2. Restore your calipers and then do #1.
3. Move to a 3.5" strut and get either S-Calipers or the A-Calipers (SC calipers that Chuck recommends) then do #1 and 2.

As John mentioned, you will really be surprised at how well your car will stop with a decent set of pads. Most people who complain of poor brake performance in a Porsche suffer this aliment. I don't know how many people I've spoken with that went with "Metal Master" or metallic pads in general, and don't realize that they've stopped the squeak but... their car no longer stops.

With that much engine you'd probably be better off with the #3 choice. Of that choice I like the S-Calipers over the A-Calipers due to weight and weight only (well... not "only", I think they're way cool too). CAUTION: Slippery Slope Alert - There is no such thing as a cheap S-Caliper. Read my restoration thread herein before diggin in. Most (80-90%) have bad pistons that will need replacing. Most have pitting and will need new dichromate or anodizing to help them last another 30-40 years. The S-Caliper is actually a 908 caliper without the endurance pad change mechanism. Awesome caliper! I don't like to pay more than $300 for a pair unless they've been professionally restored or you know for a FACT they have SS pistons.

A-Calipers - These have (roughly) the same size pads as the S-Calipers but they are cast iron and heavy. The pads are not as deep as the S-Calipers pads. They were used in the entire SC range and when the later Carrera came out they got an 11mm spacer and another few years of life.

All of them including the M-Calipers that are currently on your car, have 48mm pistons.

Sorry to say, to get larger calipers you will need new struts. All is not lost as 914 guys love T-Struts for 5-lug conversions. They bolt right up. You can sell your complete struts (with hubs and your old calipers) for around $350 - $400.00 to a 914 guy.

That money will go a long way toward finding you some decent SC struts on the Bird-Board. I have some early and late S-Calipers and some A-Calipers if you're interested. Check around though... there's some good deals if you're patient.

Hope that helps.

Eric

[Neunelfer]

One other quicky:

I noticed you asked about the Carrera front end. I'm not a huge fan of this in these light cars. This moves to a 24mm rotor and rotating mass is not where you want to add weight "if you don't have to..."

I'm one of those who does not think you "have" to change to a Carrera rotor and caliper. I've raced my 911 in both autocross configurations and at Las Vegas on the road course. Given your driving requirements I would be willing to bet the farm that you will "never" see brake fade with a 20mm rotor and S or A-Calipers.

E.

[healeykit]

Hey Guys

Thanks for the feedback.

I think I'm going to start with a comprehensive brake service and new pads. That would obviously be the most economical route and given everything I want to do with the car I can start there since your experience has been good with that approach.

I doesn't seem that anyone is recommending to install drilled or slotted rotors - is that correct?