993 vs. a Longhood

[JasonF]

I am the proud owner of a very well sorted '95 Carrera 4 (993). After spending a year and $$$ to get the car in perfect condition, I'm now starting to feel the pull of an early 911...Not an "S" but possibly a "T" or even an "E."

Although my 993 has ice cold a/c, a very fast and torquey (for me) motor and a ton of upgrades (everything from a top-notch respray, to a fresh top-end, suspension, RS clutch/LWF, Rennsport chip, HID headlights, etc, etc...) I look at a longhood (lwb) and drool. And although the 993 is fun to drive, there's a certain rawness missing. I guess it boils down to the fact that the 993 is an amazing daily driver. The issue is that I don't use it as a daily driver.

I'm contemplating either putting the car up for sale, or offer as a trade for a 69-73 non-S that's either been restored (+/- cash) or is in original condition.

For those on the board that have owned/driven a 993, can you tell me what it was like to also own an early 911? Pure horsepower is a distant runner-up to feeling connected to the car.

I've searched tons of archive posts and wanted to get the board's collective input regarding the value of my 993 as a worthy trade (I would ask around $32.5k for the 993. Seriously underwater, but that's ok) and how the driving experience differs from an early 911.

Thanks!

[Greg D.]

That's a very fair asking price for your car...

I had a 96 993, and a few long hoods... The nice thing is that the view won't be much different from the driver's seat. I used to joke that while the 993 was gorgeous from the outside, in my garage... But when I was actually behind the wheel of it, I felt like I was driving a 911SC with better shifter and AC. The 993 power delivery was a little too smooth and quiet for my taste, making the car deceptively quick (and bad for your licence) but ultimately not as satisfying. The front end of the long hood will feel lighter, the engine while less powerful will feel more responsive, the whole car more connected, and overall, you will have just as much fun (if not more) but at lower speeds. All in all, good for your licence...

And now for stuff that'll get me banned: the SC that preceded the 993 in my garage and the 996 that followed it both felt more "connected" to me...Yes, even a damn 996 ;-) Maybe my 993 was suffering from tired shocks (at 45K miles?), I'll never know, but it was the most dissapointing 911 I ever owned (yet the most beautiful one) - too quiet, too smooth, too GT...

I think you will love an oldie...

[joegt3cup]

I will try and give you some insight from my experience. The very first Porsche I purchased was back in 1985... a 1979 911SC. It was a very nice street car but as the years rolled by my interest changed and I was no longer interested in street cars. In 1994 I purchased my first factory built track car a 1992 Cup USA 911 this was more towards my interest and new hobby. In 2002 I upgraded to a GT3 Cup Car once campaigned by Porsche AG in the SuperCup series and consider this my Porsche high water mark to date. I also purchased a 993 street car for my wife to drive. I would drive the car on occasion and although it had good power and torque I found it fat, heavy and wondered why anyone owns these things but it was a cab and she loved it. When I decided to get out of racing and go back to a street car I first thought an RS America would fit the bill. I found a car flew to Florida to pick it up and within a few miles of starting the journey home I knew it was a mistake and said I would sell it the moment I got home and did. Soooo were was I to go from here were my Porsche days over ? Well I had never owned an early car and decided perhaps this was the direction I should go... they are powerful, light and nimble all the things I valued in my race cars. In the end I purchased a 67 911 and have never looked back. I hope this helps.

[a911s]

I've been lucky as a PCA driving instructor to have driven everything from a '65 911 to a 2008 997 GT3 over the past eight years. The 993 is essentially a grand touring car. It has very smooth power delivery, long gearing, comfortable ride, excellent brakes and handling. It is easy to drive as a GT, but when you start driving it like a sports car, the gearing is wrong and it is reluctant to turn in (the 996 GT3 fixes this somewhat). What the 993 doesn't have is communicative steering, sharp throttle response, usable throttle steering, sharp turn in, and "tossability". These are qualities a nimble and lithe early 911 has in spades - and why it is so rewarding to drive quickly. You could think of the 993 experience as a bit lazy, and the early 911 as attention grabbing.

[jaudette3]

SWB!

What Randy said:

What the 993 doesn't have is communicative steering, sharp throttle response, usable throttle steering, sharp turn in, and "tossability". These are qualities a nimble and lithe early 911 has in spades - and why it is so rewarding to drive quickly.

That is spot-on. I've had the good fortune of owning or driving just about everything from 50's Speedsters to 997's, and my favorite by a wide margin, is my '67 SWB. It is kind of an abnormal Normal as it's been fussed with a bit. But I love the twitchy over-steer of the SWB's. I also like a proper 356 (they can surprise you with a good driver on twisties) and the SWB is for me the perfect blend of 356 and 911.

I've had three 993's mainly because, like everyone else, I love the way they look. But they were all kinda of boring and I've never held onto one for very long.

I'm going to get pelted for this by my fellow enthusiasts, but I much prefer the SWB over the LWB's that I have owned (and some of the LWB's were pretty decent cars). They were great (9.5), but the SWB is fantastic (10.0). Again, though, my SWB is a bit of a freak.

To get back to your question...

If you like to drive in a spirited manner at times, there's just no comparison between an early 911 (any proper early 911) and a 993. Go for it!

Cheers,
JohnA

[Greg D.]

I've been lucky as a PCA driving instructor to have driven everything from a '65 911 to a 2008 997 GT3 over the past eight years. The 993 is essentially a grand touring car. It has very smooth power delivery, long gearing, comfortable ride, excellent brakes and handling. It is easy to drive as a GT, but when you start driving it like a sports car, the gearing is wrong and it is reluctant to turn in (the 996 GT3 fixes this somewhat). What the 993 doesn't have is communicative steering, sharp throttle response, usable throttle steering, sharp turn in, and "tossability". These are qualities a nimble and lithe early 911 has in spades - and why it is so rewarding to drive quickly. You could think of the 993 experience as a bit lazy, and the early 911 as attention grabbing.

Randy, I am so glad to hear you say that, because that summarizes my feelings to a T. Mine felt like GT, and as much as that car is achingly beautiful and revered as the last aircooled, it was the most dissapointing 911 I ever owned...

Glad I'm not alone in this... IMO, if you want to have fun at lower speeds, an early 911 (or even a 912) is a ball... For fun at high speed on a track, a CaymanS or cheap used 996 is the ticket... Anything in between will take $$$$$ to me made into something competitive...

[JasonF]

That's a very fair asking price for your car...

The 993 power delivery was a little too smooth and quiet for my taste, making the car deceptively quick (and bad for your licence) but ultimately not as satisfying. The front end of the long hood will feel lighter, the engine while less powerful will feel more responsive, the whole car more connected, and overall, you will have just as much fun (if not more) but at lower speeds. All in all, good for your licence...
Maybe my 993 was suffering from tired shocks (at 45K miles?), I'll never know, but it was the most dissapointing 911 I ever owned (yet the most beautiful one) - too quiet, too smooth, too GT...

I think you will love an oldie...

Thanks Greg,

The 993 is so easy and satisfying to drive on longer trips, but my driving simply hasn't evolved that way. My 993 handled like a Buick until I spent a lot of time (and money) getting the suspension just right. Now it rides like it's on rails!

I had never owned an early car and decided perhaps this was the direction I should go... they are powerful, light and nimble all the things I valued in my race cars. In the end I purchased a 67 911 and have never looked back. I hope this helps.

That's exactly what I'm looking for...enough power to have fun, but something that feels light and nimble. Thanks so much for the feedback.

[a911s]

Jason, I think you will find that most early 911s do not handle like they are on rails, at least not like a tricked out 993 will. The tires are skinnier, the wheel will move in your hands over bumps, and the front castor angle will not allow for as planted a front end feel. However, all these things do add to the involvement you will feel when driving a well maintained early 911. It will move around underneath you a bit - letting you know what's up and urging you to contol it. When you experience that fully you will be hooked. Now, if you put your Varioram 3.6 into an early RS/ST/RSR look hot rod and cam/chip it - Watch Out!

Guys, thanks - I've actually thought about this stuff a lot. I enjoy it much more than all the minutia gazing. John, I agree with you about the SWB handling. It's not all that different from a LWB - everything just happens a lot faster.

[zweistein]

Well I think it is time to defend the 993 a bit.

I own 2 911s, one is a 2.4S (with 2.7RS engine and semislick tyres) and the other is a 993 turbo WLS2.

they are both great cars and the 993 turbo is a magnificent car. Its raw power is amazing , brakes are sensational and it looks...
Whenever I feel bad I just take a drive with the 993 turbo and I do some hard accelerations on the motorway. Happiness turns back immediately. No other car achieves this.( I don't know american muscle cars, AC cobra?). This car is just a class for itself , much above a 2.4S.
I enjoy very much driving it but for my favorite driving up some tiny mountain passes remains the old 2.4S. I am still too scared of the extremly high limits of the 993 turbo.
Therefore, because I am not a good enough driver to enjoy driving at the limit with the 993 turbo I prefer the 2.4S for fun driving.

Which one to sell if I had to sell one of the 2?
Well, the 2.4S is my first Porsche ...

Good luck
Andreas

[kenikh]

John, I agree with you about the SWB handling. It's not all that different from a LWB - everything just happens a lot faster.

SWB is the most fun car on the planet. I am a convert.

FWIW, these are all great cars. I could have as much fun w/ the thrust of the turbo as with my 165 tired SWB. Different flavors for different days, I say!