65' Hinge bolts

[rcnagel]

I'm trying to settle an originality question. A friend tells me that I should have a the 12 point allen type hinge bolt bolts on my door hinges. The ones he gave me are coarse and not fine threads. All my hinge brackets are for fine threaded.

Did they use a regular hex fine thread bolt on the early cars or is there a twelve point allen bolt with fine threads? Is the a Karman vs. Reuters issue?

My car is the rusty picture below with Vin number below 300600

The white car has been in the same family since purchase and is vin 300990 and is very unmolested and original. See hex bolts.

The blue with red interior is supposed to be a very original restorations with vin number 302144. See 12 point allen bolts.

Thanks for your help.

[classic]

Don't know the answer, but i know how you can find out.

If you remove one bolt, hence not messing with your door alignment, if it's got a deep recess, it's a 12 point bolt.

[John Straub]

Mine is #301111 with hex head, original.

John

[edmayo]

Classic is correct in that if the the hinge bolt hole is counterbored it should use the 12 pt. allen bolt. Non counterbored hole means it uses the six point hex head bolt. However, I have not seen anything other than a 8 X 1.25 mm thread, no matter which bolt is used. I did think the switch from allen to hex bolt came in late 72, but John may have one of those wonderful exceptions.

[304065]

Casey,

Hard to tell from the first photo, is that taken through a shot glass of whiskey? But it looks like the bolt headmark is 8.8 which is not original for 300555 (you said 900555 above but you were probably thinking about your engine number )- it would be 8G before the DIN spec changed in the late sixties.

I've only ever seen a 12-point internal wrenching feature on these screws, what the Germans call "XZN."

[John Straub]

Here are two.

The first is from my '65(#301111), it's a KARRO 8G. This is the original paint on them.

The second one is my '67, also original paint on them.

John

[rcnagel]

So I dug through my plating and found two short Karro 8G's that are fine thread. So that must have been original to the car. The car had half of the missing when I bought.

I hope you all appreciate the quality of the attached photo. I got out the Nikon SLR.

Thanks for your help.

[edmayo]

Say, this getting interesting, from what John Staub has shown they must have interchangeably used external hex or internal hex 12 point from the beginning. The counterbore still seems to indicate the internal hex usage. And rcnagel, you're confident that your hinge bolts are a 8 x 1.00 mm thread ?

[John Straub]

Ed and Casey,

Maybe they went from hex to 12 point when they started with the stamped M8 panel, like on the blue #302144.

John...does your #304065 have the M8 panel with hex or 12 point?

John

[304065]

My '66 911 304065 has the XZN bolts. Still have original Irish Green paint on them.

Here is my '66MY 912 made late 1965- the red car.

And a page from the FWM.