Ultimate R thread

[Longhitv]

R1 Amber


my amber

[Eric Gratz]

Anyone know when these pictures were taken? Are these 911R prototypes? These and more can be found here.

http://www.targapedia.com/album_targ...ia%20(22).html

[davep]

S-YZ 28 would be R1 911R Prototype light ivory

[Eric Gratz]

Could these images be from May 1966? It looks like the 906 S-XR 42 was there in this livery for the 1966 race.

[davep]

Eric, I do not believe it is likely for the images to be from May 1966. The very first 911S (1967) were built in May, and R1 was probably August or September. That appears to be R1, but anything is possible.

[HughH]

Eric
there are three sets of license plates to help place this photo apart from the fact that it was at Cefalu' Hotel S. Lucia.
The 911R is R1 as the plate is S-YZ 28. The other two cars are S-XR 42, 906-128 which won the 1966 Targa as car #148 in May 1966 and S-ZL 125 which is 910-003.

910-003 could not have been at the 1966 Targa but it was a T car at the 1967 Targa. The first 910 was only unveiled in July 1966 and there was virtually no competition entries for 910's in 1966 with the first real entry being for 910-003 at Daytona in 1967 when it was 4th.

The photos of it with the T are definitely in May 1967. BUT the other photos are (I think) earlier but not at the previous Targa. My best guess is that they were taken at a test session probably in late 1966 to sort out and benchmark the new 910 and perhaps the 911R as well. At that stage there was only one 910 that had done any competition and that was a hillclimb on July 10, 1966.

Cefalu would have been a good place to test especially if it was into winter and they had the current winner in the 906 as a benchmark. 911R prototype 1 was constructed in August / September 1966. These photos are very early in the 911R development though, as the 911R's do not have the "trademark" PORSCHE side decals.

I dont think that that last photo was taken at the same time though - I think it is a different 911R, possibly prototype 2, as the colour seems to be red, or at least darker than white. However prototype 2 was not made until 28 February 1967 according to the build book - and only then was a shell without a drivetrain. It also seems to be a a different type of test and is headed testing the 911S and may be later than the other photos. So IF that was prototype 2 that photo cannot be earlier than March 1967.

[Eric Gratz]

I just did an update in the original French version (Autodiva forum).
Will try to translate it, but in the mean time, here is a copy of it.
By the way, I have also to "cut it", as it contain more characters per message that this forum let go!

Here is the first part: the 4 prototypes

-------------------------->

Porsche 911R, Register, s / AutoDiva research recap, with l help and information from, among others, the forums "Early 911 Registry", "Driverphoto" (Miguel Tacoma, who operates the link / translation) for the "R" Spaniards, as well as the pages of Mr. Kauffman of the site Pbase.com.
A special thank you to Mr. Jürgen Barth for his availability and his precise answers, which allowed the penultimate update. And above all: a big thank you to all of you on this Forum.
Situation, (of course "SGDG"), and always awaiting your feedback for any errors or omissions.
Latest edition: May 2019:


Notes:
a) Be careful not to confuse the 4 prototypes ("R / 1-4") with the first 4 "prods", ie: 11899001 - 11899004, which have numbers generally followed by an "R".
b) The "white" color shown below is actually: "Light Ivory" (light ivory, ..a whole program !!), its 1968 color code was 6804B.

--------------------------

a) 4 “Factory” Prototypes: R2, and R4 in fiberglass (front wings + hoods + doors), but, R3 was in aluminum? (R3 = "Sportomatic") and R1 still having 911S steel fenders, hoods and doors.

305 876 ​​R / 1:

Special signs: 1st prototype of “R”. Engine n ° 900 063. White. Little diff. with a 911S except oil filling under the right rear quarter panel and Plexi windows, Front cover in fiberglass with an air intake on the right side. Rear hood in steel, ..with central reinforcement, as standard 911. Front deflector windows like 911S (swivel with rounded bottom, in chrome-plated brass), passenger side window with one slide.
Info: PSE car, plate S-YZ 28, between 1967 and March 1969, p. eg: n ° 9, car of Ben Pon / Dieter Spoerri during Mugello (entered by “Hart Ski Team” not PSE?)> Sonauto France, plate 284 AJ 92, July 1969> René Mazzia, Le Mans, plate 355 MP 72, April 1970> Mr. Capdevielle, Peau, early 1971> Mr. Gilbert Courthiade, Bordeaux, then sold via “Egreteaud” 1972> unknown in Paris, 1990> anonymous, current owner, Cannes, France, original condition, unrestored.

306681 R / 2:

Special signs: fiery red. Repl. central front cover. Wide rear fenders and fiberglass doors.
Info: PSE, registration. S-YZ 29, car of Elford / Van Lennep, Mugello 1967, N ° 115 Coupe des Alpes year?,>? 1978> Kerry Morse, awaiting restoration since 1980, California, USA? >?

DaveP and HughH, Thanks for filling in the blanks on when the pictures on Targapedia were likely taken of R1, after August/September 1966, and what is likely R2, after March 1967. Maybe the pictures will jog additional memories.

The pictures look to be consistent with what is known about R1 and R2 as translated from post #587 in this thread.

[Ernie W]

The Kardex for Proto 1, Vin. 305876S, showing the delivered date from factory. On the PBase account of JCK, the history of Proto 1 lists a date of "4-1-68" as Targa Florio, Test Pre Training/Pirelli Tires.

[HughH]

Ernie
Great information from that Kardex thanks

It is interesting, but not surprising, that the normal production cars with vins either side of 305876 were completed in August and September 1966 that this car - being a prototype was not completed until December. (although the three month gap to the "date delivered to the buyer" in late March 1967 is perhaps a bit more surprising given that it was "delivered" within the same factory.)

What was more surprising to me was the timing shown for the tire tests given that was a couple of months after the first "production" 911R's were completed. I read that date as April 1968 which is also when the normal Targa testing / recce sessions occurred (but even if it was January 1968 I think it is a bit late).

I am still puzzled by the fact that the photos of proto R1 look like it is near enough brand new - not 12 months old at that test session (not having the PORSCHE decal etc). While it is a couple of months before it was seen in action at Mugello in July with the decals and hood scoop, there is also a photo of it supposedly at the Targa in 1968 (below) with both decals that are not on the original photos and scoop that can't be seen in the photos but are so unusual that you would have thought a photo would have been taken if they were there.

Certainly in the earlier photos (supposedly a month earlier and at the same non-factory location) it also did not have the driving lights or the centre hood color being different. So I am not certain if the photos originally posted are as late as April (or January) 68 but would accept an April 67 at testing before the Targa that year as a good possibility. This is because the car does not seem to have been "released" from the production area to the test area until March 31 1967 and the 910 shown was the T car for that Targa and the 906 was the previous year's winner. (In fact the photos are in the 1967 batch on that site which is probably a good indication)

[Ernie W]

info found in the 911R book, Christoph Mader, p111.

Targa Florio 28 March - 1 April 1968 (pre-training)

The factory did not officially enter a 911R but they did send two factory 911R's (proto R1 and R2) for testing purposes. It goes on to say R2 was driven to Sicily (dark red colored in the photo), and R1 (the white light ivory one) was transported on a trailer. This is consistent with the recent posted photos. Both cars were equipped with standard 901/22 engines. The "red" car R2 had Michelin CA 4 180 x 15 tires on 6" rims, the light ivory car, R1 used Pirelli tires.

Both cars had the new B-series clutch plate, pressure plate, and flywheel, R1 used a clutch plate with four dust grooves in the lining, R2 already had the 69 B-series front axle installed prior to this test, no mention was made if R1 had the new axle also. Both cars were testing new chain tensioners. And the final report from the test team, all technical innovations did well... I think this info helps date the photos...e