Matching numbers, what does it take?

[teveo]

Having read all sort of reasoning and discussions around this theme, let the early 911 guys come with the answer!

Give your vote, no sour grapes will be biting here, all anonymous.

So what does it take to have a matching numbers 911?

[Macroni]

Tough call between the first two for me. These cars were built for driving and the proper replacment of a block due to misfortune should not diminish the value.

Reality is that any point of differentiation, positive or negative, goes toward establishing value from the median.

[Mudi]

if it's replaced and it's upfront and it's done right, the value will self correct...

[Milou]

For me "matching numbers" is one and one only.

But it doesn't mean that 2 or 3 are "bad" or "non original", or "not worth as much", or "lesser", just not "matching numbers".

Lots of great vehicles, Steve McQueen's cars or the record price Ferrari sold in Maranello last year were repainted or non matching numbers, and it didn't stop them from being wonderful cars.

[John Sinclair]

I was going to reply in a similar way as Milou. Only number one is the correct answer. However, you shouldn't mix this up with "less good", "less fun"', etcetera. A Porsche should be used in the way it was supposed to be used by the factory. This also means parts will wear and need to be replaced. A gearbox or engine might even have to be replaced. This means it will no longer have the original engine it left the factory with, but it doesn't make it a lesser car.
What's important to me is:
- have the right parts been used

In my opinion what is also important is that the car is not presented to be something it is not. So trying to sell people a 911 T as an ST or RSR in my opinion is wrong. Just be honoust and say the 911 T has been made into a ST or RSR. If you've done it in the same way it could have been done in the old days, it will still have a certain extra value to the right person. I wouldn't mind owning one. It just depends on the quality that went into the car and true quality always has it's value.

John

[210bhp]

Only the drivetrain?

Does a true matching numbers car have to have ALL numbers matching?

Paint code?
Wheels?
early body panels?
dash pad number?


Just asking


Regards
Mike

[a911s]

Matching numbers to me means that all body numbers, including the dash code, should match the kardex, and so should the motor and transmission numbers. If anyone can tell that these numbers were not stamped by the factory at the time the car left Stuttgart, then it falls to the certified history that comes with the car to determine their value. Paint code, wheel dates, and body panels that match or are original all add additional value

[obrut]

reading about wolfturbo's old RS made me consider this. i vote 1 - original engine case and gearbox case. i consider the internals to pretty much all be consumables.

as an example, i think that car would be worth less than an IDENTICAL condition car with the original case.

however, i also agree with milou that a car can still be very valuable/collectable etc even if not in this condition.

[teveo]

Seems like the crowd thinks that for a true "matching numbers car" the definition is engine, tranny, and chassi original, ie what left the factory.

Agree that for a correctly restored car it should not do much to value if a correct replacement engine or tranny (or even a chassi) was utilized but for an "original/mint reference car" there would certainly be a difference in value between matching / non matching.

My 70S has an engine 200 numbers off or so, its still as fun. The car lived a rough life so we are happy to have it more or less tidy in nice condition.

[denson]

Perhaps, my thoughts are different as I have a "dog in the fight". It depends how it was done. Back to, are we talking about a complete donor motor, or is it the original motor, with nos replacement parts as the old parts wore out. There is a HUGE difference in this comparision.

So, I think it best that each situation be evaluated on its' merits and what the actual situation is. Anything less than that places this type of evalution in a strict thinking box which is a poor way to arrive at a proper evaluation.

On that note, those that are too focused on the thinking box theory are missing the point and probably the fun.