S's Aren't Worth the Price Premium

[jaudette3]

I originally posted this in another area, but I'm moving it here because I would like to, umm, stimulate some discussion.

The spread between S's and T's / E's seems to be narrowing a bit. It might be due to the decline in prices from their (frothy) peaks. Or it may be due to what I have discovered over time - the condition of the car is far more important than whether it has a T, an E or an S on the engine lid. If we were confined to having to leave the cars in absolute stock configuration, it would make sense to prefer an S over a T or E. But as we so often modify them with things like 2.7 rebuilds, suspension upgrades, etc., there's just no sense in paying a premium for one over the other. They're so similar to begin with that the modifications can be made without molesting the car and it can still retain its integrity.

For example...

My recently acquired '72 Signal Yellow 911T Coupe is as good as any early 911 that I have owned to-date. It's lightly restored and great to look at and, with intelligent and well-done mechanical modifications (by the PO) it's great to drive. And I bought it for perhaps 50% of what a comparable S would cost.



A T or E with properly done performance enhancements is to me the best value in early 911's today (especially if the improvements were done by a PO). I find the 2 for 1 pricing hard to resist. Here's the one I got for free:



Thoughts? What am I missing?

Cheers,
JohnA

[gsjohnson]

The S is about added performance. You can take a nice T and end up with more performance than an S with the proper build and still end up with a matching numbers motor for less money than buying a nice S.

[NV Stig]

I got a better idea. I have a 69S, and I am hoping to make it to Ventura next month. My first venue with the 911.
It's a very simple litmus test called HWY 33. Just go past Ojai into the big wide open and let the big dogs eat and see what happens. They are Porsches staring a windy road. Let them do what they do. All gets discussed over beers after the fact.

[Mr9146]

The letter on the decklid makes it ... ummm ... "S"pecial.

Sure you can modify a T or E, but with the S the factory did it for you ....

[jaudette3]

I got a better idea. I have a 69S, and I am hoping to make it to Ventura next month. My first venue with the 911.
It's a very simple litmus test called HWY 33. Just go past Ojai into the big wide open and let the big dogs eat and see what happens. They are Porsches staring a windy road. Let them do what they do. All gets discussed over beers after the fact.

Exactly! If it's the driving you're into you don't need to spend the $$$ on an S. It's easy and relatively inexpensive to make an early 911T or E perform as well as, or better than, a stock S. You can build a pretty big doggie for what a stock S would cost you.

Cheers,
JohnA

[gruen911]

John,
The premium for the S is all about collectibilty. I have owned various T,E and S's. All drive great. But as George Orwell once wrote, "All animals are created equal, some more equal than others."

[csbush]

I agree with gruen911. The only possible explaination for it is the collectibility. If you are in it for an investment- buy an S. If you are just looking for a great vintage sportscar- any of them will be great. In fact, from what I understand, the T with the carburetors would be more fun to drive in most conditions. The torque curse on the S is a little impractical for normal highway or city driving. But it is hard to argue with the marketplace.

[67Porsche911S]

I love my 67S for it's purity and this gorgeous engine. It's a piece of art for me. If it's all about value for money we would all drive pimped 912's and have a framed Mona Lisa print on our living room wall.

[parced@telia.co]

A Porsche is a expression of your personality and is built to be used. Until a few years ago it meant a all original S. I love the S, having had a 67, two 72's and a 73. While having the last 72 S I came to the conclusion that the serial number was of lesser importance for me and that it today actually was something that held me back in the use of the car and in modifying the car.

Today Porsche for me means a Hotrod that dare to use, hard. So I bought a 79 SC and back dated it I found and a 2.7 Carrera engine and now is building myself my own interpretation of the 73 RS lwt.

Value is something that can't be right or wrong. It is a reflection of the values of the one with the car and the one with the money at that specific point of time. The rest is statistics.

Pär

[Tom F.]

Depends on which S. I think that 73's are overpriced, because by then the Ts were coming with all the S suspension and trim features, plus the factory deleted the front cooler for 73. The 2.4 motors came with Bosch distributors and MFI or CIS, no Zeniths.

The 2.2 S's are a slightly different story. No way to get that sweet front cooler setup into a T or an E, without spending way more money than it's worth.

My personal taste is that I don't like the SWB cars nearly as much as the LWBs. So, I would rather have a LWB T than a SWB S, most of the time.

However, John, I think that you are basically right. The amazing variety of ways to upgrade an early 911 eliminate most of the reason to spend extra for an S.

Wasn't the S around 50% more expensive than the T, new? That still seems like an appropriate price difference, to me, for cars in equal condition.

I would rather drive an early 911T with sport seats than a 911S with standard seats, any day. I have factory sport seats in both my cars. My 71T with a 3.0 is faster than any early S, I think. Would I swap it for a 2.2 S with sport seats in decent condition? In a heartbeat.