911T to Kremer ST -questions - suspension

[advtracing]

Before i send off the suspension parts for paint / hpc coating i need to confirm the items i am using will be period correct ( as much as i can ) to match the 1972 #80 kremer ST , based more on factory spec than the genuine car

- Front axle/a arm mount would be steel not aluminium
- Front through body sway bar most likely would have been 15 or 16mm ( based on sports purposes 72) although it does refer to large sizes ?
- Front brake calipers would be standard aluminium "s" unless Kremer used 917 caliper which we may never know ( anyone know)
-Rear sway bar would be factory 16mm ( again as per sports purposes 72 ) but again was there larger factory sizes ?
Note ; there is mention of interchangeable front / rear sway bars as such anyone have a photo of what the rear may look like
-Rear banana arms would have been steel not aluminium and would not have factory bracing (as per later rs / rsr )
- a arms standard

i have ref. 69-72 sport purposes data , paul frere's books , bruce anderson's books , parts manuals (69-72)

[mike curnow]

This may or may not help.

The 1973 RSR used an aluminum front axle/ A arm mount basically like the 1974 and later street cars used.

The 1973 RSR used the same sway bars front and rear, like in the publication? The setup also used the same arms front and rear. The drops were the same except for length. The holders for the bars were not the same.They had 18,19,20,21,and 22 mm bars. Most of the parts were fairly simple weldments. The Delran bushings are also the same front and back, of course the bushings inside hole would match the outside diameter of the bar. Its pretty slick and easy to change the bars, I wonder if there would be any real demand for reproductions? I have all the origional parts.

[advtracing]

would you belive that due to the rsr style sway bars being introduced by porsche in 1972 that there is a good chance that kremer would have had access to the parts in early 72 to fit to there ST style car ?

As Kremer had such a good relationship with porsche it could seen that they would have been the test mule for parts prior to the release of the rs and RSR

Any chance of a photo of the rear setup or a past link if you have already done so.

[mike curnow]

John

The RSR sway bar looks like the regular street bar except that it was generally thicker, 18 to 22mm, and because of this the square ends are approx 1 inch aquare.( I can measure this) Also for the setup there are two parellel pieces of meral welded to the rear suspension arms and the heim joint on the end of the drop goes between them and is secured with a bolt. Here are pictures of the front holder for the sway bar and Delran bushing - the round aluminum thing, the Delran bushing - bad picture. The arms, same front and back. Also a picture of the rear sway bar holder, again the same Delran bushing fits in this holder. The rear holders bolt to the standred street sway bar bracket. The drops are just an aluminum rod, approx 3/8 in dia. with a hole drilled in each end, into the bar and taped with right and left hand threads and fitted with a hein joint fitting. I can give you pictures and measurements of everything, I put these up since I had them now.You cannot see it because of the poor picture but the Delran bushing is split along its length so it can be removed very easily.

[advtracing]

so i believe that Gib used a modified tarrett engineering rear bar on his ST Creation , so i would asume that he was following this rsr design as it does look very similar.
We could conclude that it is very likley kremer used this and it was availible ( according to the sports purposes manual) ?

[letsrollbabe]

John:

Kremer might have used adjustable levers like the RSRs in 72, but don't know for sure. They would have been looking for adjustability to get better handling, so it is likely they used something like the RSR units to control under/oversteer. I think Edmund Harris told me that Kremer used 906 or 908 brakes on the front. Factory steel trailing arms would have been used I think.

Gib

[mike curnow]

I may be way off base, since I do not know if the Kremers are still alive, but why not call them and ask? Or get someone who knows them and ask them to talk to them?Most of the Porsche guys are very helpful and maybe they are also?

[Matt Blast]

John,

I disassembled the suspension on 230 0495 and it looked like it had never been apart. It still had factory rubber bushings throughout, just like a street car. Front torsion bar 19mm, rear 23mm. Aluminum front calipers,steel rear. 15mm rear sway bar. I don't have the front (through the body bar) with me, but I can check, 16mm I think. The rear sway bar supports are reinforced and thats about it. All street stuff from that time period.

Matt

[advtracing]

John,

I disassembled the suspension on 230 0495 and it looked like it had never been apart. It still had factory rubber bushings throughout, just like a street car. Front torsion bar 19mm, rear 23mm. Aluminum front calipers,steel rear. 15mm rear sway bar. I don't have the front (through the body bar) with me, but I can check, 16mm I think. The rear sway bar supports are reinforced and thats about it. All street stuff from that time period.

Matt

Thanks matt, just what i needed to know ,i was going through the CD of photos of yours for clues but of course the car is mostly stripped at that time . For the 72 year ( being a change over period ) it is quite up in the air with what was used unless you have a genuine car to work off . Yours definitely must be one of the rare one's that still has a good proportion of original fit out

[advtracing]

John


Here is some info from a prior discussion.Matt could you post pictures of the underside of your car for the rears.

Raj


http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...=23333&page=18

Thanks raj, i had looked and download that info off that thread and as such i am following the photo layout with reinforcing the original style sway bar mount , but what made me question the type of rear sway was the ref. in the 71-72 sports purposes manual and ref in 2 of paul frere's books to " interchangeable sway bars ..." which made me think would kremer use it if it was available?
I may get my existing rear hpc coated anyway and if i use an rsr style instead there is no great loss