Paging Light Police

[jaudette3]

Are these correct driving lights for a SWB?

Thanks!

Cheers,
JohnA

[Zithlord]

No, to wide diameter(same diameter as for the Mercedes Hella extra driving lights) and they seem to have the Italian version H1 bulb/bulb shield. In the PET the driving lights for SWB and LWB are the same, with special versions for France(yellow lens), Italy(H1 bulb) and US(no driving light available). When this is said I have seen some early comersial photos of a SWB car with both Cibie driving lights and the larger diameter Hellas that you have shown above, but neither was available as factory standard options.

Eric/Michael(light police) can probably fill in the holes in my statement.

John

[70SATMan]

John/John,

Sounds about right... Michael likes to get "s-o-terik" on number of rivets (), but that's the essential information!

Since these only came with four rivets, we may concentrate on other areas.

John, those are the very lights I discussed with you awhile back. While not officially offered by Porsche they were featured on the 67S in early promotional photos with non cut grills. I've posted the photo on the board before, its in the Brian Long 63-71 911 book. I'm sure they used a different bracket to offset the lights enough to open the hood. It's a tight fit.

Personally I'm of the opinion that the 118s as we recognize them weren't available until 69. I haven't done enough research on it though all I've seen in a few early manuals and accessories brochures leads me to believe it was an earlier Hella light but, not the 6 in. Mercedes style.

I've got a set of the H1s just like you posted and I dig them a lot. With the H1 bulb and the larger reflector they do throw out noticably more light.

I had a set of the amber H1 fogs but sold them to a great new friend of mine. Can't wait to see them in play!

That set looks very nice. The lenses are slightly mismatched but, not terribly.

[jaudette3]

Thanks for the input. I went ahead and bought these. Here is the picture that Michael might be referring to. It appears that the lights mounted on the bumper rather than through the grills.

Cheers,
JohnA

[70SATMan]

Here is the picture that Michael might be referring to. It appears that the lights mounted on the bumper rather than through the grills.

Cheers,
JohnA

Yep, thats the one. The long mounting bolt is vertical which gives the impression of a bumper mount but, if you look closely you can see the horizontal bracket protruding out from between the horn grill slats.

Saw some covered Hellas mounted in the bumper top at the Ventura show. Very well done. I wanted to take a cover off and have a peek.

Cheers,

[jaudette3]

Here is what the seller has to say about the lights:

Hi, John. Thanks for buying these lights and thanks for the payment! I appreciate it.

I hope you don’t mind if I offer my personal opinion in response to your comment. I understand that some people out there try to argue that the H-1 driving light was not a “factory” light, but I sit in the opposite camp and believe they were indeed a factory option. I respect the other guys’ opinions, but my contacts in Germany have told me the opposite, and the Porsche brochure photos I posted below the ad also show them on a 1967 911S. Nonetheless, it’s still hard, 42 long years later, to us to know anything for absolutely sure.

Anyway, I am personally convinced that Porsche did offer these driving lights as an option until the Hella 118 was designed/selected. Regardless, these lights are really rare and I believe a good addition to any early Porsche 911, or Porsche lighting collection, and I do sincerely hope you enjoy them. I’ll be shipping them insured late this afternoon unless something unforeseen happens. I’ll send you a tracking number when I have it. Cheers.

Factory option or not, I like 'em and I'm pleased to have them.

Cheers,
JohnA

[MarkS]

John, I was first to respond to the FS but sat on the fence not sure of the correctness even after hours of reading and rereading various post's, googleing, back and forth with the seller who was very helpful. etc. etc. With all the info available I could find I could not convince myself to pull the trigger and commit, in my case/project I want 100% varifiable. That said I should have pulled the trigger for another project because the lights are neat. I sure would like to see this subject continued and arrive at something definitive. If you "lik'em" that's what count's.

[70SATMan]

I sure would like to see this subject continued and arrive at something definitive. If you "lik'em" that's what count's.

Well, I'll just say that Mauro's reference to "Porsche brochures" is incorrect. The pictures he posted on PP are the same ones I originally posted here. While they are Porsche promotional photos, I've not seen them in any official Porsche brochures.

For sure, the bracket they used for that shot is different from the TTG SWB bracket which leads me to believe they were still developing the final design for TTG.

This is pretty easy to verify though. All we need is someone who has original 67-68 parts manuals and original 69-70 parts manuals post the part numbers for the TTG fog or driving lights. I have the 71 parts manual and those are the 118s. If I had them, I'd have posted the info long ago. As a shameless plug, I'm in the market to buy the original 69-70 parts manuals.

[68911+1]

The parts manual for Illustration 9/6, VII 11/67 and Description page VIII 3/69 for the 1968 lists #56 as the TTG light with the following PN:

901.631.202.00
Fog lamp round, for Halogen lamps with white reflector

901.631.202.10
Fog lamp round, for Halogen lamps with yellow reflector

901.631.121.01
Additional main beam headlamp for Halogen lamps

I take the last item to be the driving light lens (Additional main beam headlamp) as opposed to the fog light lens?

[70SATMan]

The parts manual for Illustration 9/6, VII 11/67 and Description page VIII 3/69 for the 1968 lists #56 as the TTG light with the following PN:

901.631.202.00
Fog lamp round, for Halogen lamps with white reflector

901.631.202.10
Fog lamp round, for Halogen lamps with yellow reflector

901.631.121.01
Additional main beam headlamp for Halogen lamps

I take the last item to be the driving light lens (Additional main beam headlamp) as opposed to the fog light lens?

OK, good stuff there on the 68. 71 part numbers have the 911 prefix, not the 901.

911.631.202.00
Fog lamp round, for Halogen lamps with white reflector

911.631.202.10
Fog lamp round, for Halogen lamps with yellow reflector

911.631.121.01
Additional main beam headlamp for Halogen lamps


So, could someone post the numbers out of the 69-70 manuals?

Typically the new prefix would indicate a different part, correct? Would porsche have used the exact same part but, superceded the part number only? I question that theory since there are plenty of numbers employed in the 71 parts manual still using the 901 prefix. The Fog Light switch for example.

The 69 part numbers will be telling I think.