Help with Possible Fraud!!

[andrew15]

About 2 years ago I sold a 70S roller to a local guy. It was really, really rusty and needed a COMPLETE restoration. Further it was a roller only, but had some of the good S stuff still - dash trim, rear oil thermostat / console, gauges, etc.

Now about 2 years later, it looks like it might be for sale again - except when I compared pictures of what I had with what it is now, I'm concerned about a possible VIN tampering / VIN swap.

I took a look at the car today and it appears that instead of the planned restoration of the 70S shell, the VIN looks to have been moved over to a 69T chassis. A lot of components look to be 70S (which the original car had), but the chassis has a 69 rear fuse panel, engine bay crossmember relay panel, no MFI Fuel filter mount, long oil cooler lines are outside of the rocker, etc.

The engine (sporting a red shroud) and transaxle are 69T items.

I'm a bit concerned as I sold a 70S and this car is not the same one, but now sports the VIN

So I ask the collective wisdom of the board - What should I do at this point?

Thanks
Andrew M

[andrew15]

Original chassis VIN on the 70S:

[andrew15]

Current VIN on chassis and some engine bay shots showing rear relay panel and engien crossmember relay panel

[haycait911]

a couple of thoughts FWIW.
- that chassis-stamped vin shouldn't fool anyone, looks sooooooooo wrong
- pulling the gas tank so you can see the backside of the stamping would quickly show a re-stamp. one might even be able to see this with a mirror and a light.
- the knee pad vin stamped in the dash is a fairly easy one to check for a prospective buyer that had doubts. ( and the stamped vin pictured should certainly raise doubts )
- hopefully the owner/seller will see this thread and have second thoughts?

as far as your course of action? very tough call. certainly make your observations known if someone asks you about the car. you can bet that if he sells the car and anything comes back on him, he'll be pointing at you as the person who sold him 'the' car. if you have pics of what you sold him it would be very helpful. if it winds up on ebay, there must be some way of notifying them regarding a fraudulent sale.

it's not like someone is moving the vin from an equivalent car to another chassis for purposes of a rebuild or whatever. as a bodyman I see a lot of things. take a targa for instance, if you section a front and rear end, which car have you got? where the vin is (front ) or is it the rear with the drivetrain and mechanicals. the key here is that the car he's purporting it to be is worth 2-3 times what the original car was. motive is obvious.

last word, have your pictures, paperwork, etc. in order. because if it does get sold, and the sh*t hits the fan, you can bet the coppers will be knocking on your door in the not too distant future.

[davep]

I would put the VIN in your thread so that a search will find it.
Those two photos are documentation enough that one is a poor copy.

[Edwin Ek]

Talk to the cops now.

[nickd]

Talk to the cops now.

I second that

[70SATMan]

So I ask the collective wisdom of the board - What should I do at this point?

Thanks
Andrew M

I wouldn't think more than 10 seconds on this decision after seeing that botched re-stamp. Report it to the authorities.

Is the front VIN plate also on the car? Do you have the production number from when you sold it to him? I'd check that as well. Maybe it's the first time he's done it...maybe not. How long has he been into early 911s?

The car is obviously not legit so I would probably identify him as well so that any no one else would fall into a trap. In this case a "caveat emptor" approach would not qualify in my opinion.

[andrew15]

Thanks Guys - It looks like I may be meeting with the RCMP (Those guys in the red tunics & riding horses that always get their man )

70SATMan - There IS an aluminum front plate, but it is obviously not original - It's the early 911S version - not the correct 'C' production version. As well, it's been stamped with a font that's too big

Thanks
Andrew M

[dvkk]

If the guy wanted to swap the S parts onto a 69T, that's perfectly fine. But if he does that plus swap the VIN, he's trying to defraud the next buyer.
Call the cops.
Where are you? (so we know where this car may originate from)