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Thread: Brakes, which way to go

  1. #1

    Brakes, which way to go

    I have a 1970 911T, that has seen better days, this is a project car which will take at least a year to complete, depending on limited time to work on.

    My first plan of action is to get the suspension set-up properly as it is currently very tired.

    It will in time receive a 2.8 or 3.0 motor from one of the reputable builders and contributors on this board (this is where I would prefer to spend the bulk of the money, but certainly don't want to scrimp on safety issues like proper braking?

    So while I tackle and the suspension the brakes come into play. It is a T, so the question;

    Should the stock brakes simply be rebuilt/restored and then concentrate on the various bits of suspension?

    or

    Should I just upgrade to the 3.5" spacer strut and look at purchasing either

    1. 911 S Brakes estimate cost of around $2000

    2. TRE Motorsports Boxter brake kit which can run around $3500

    3. Zufenhausen 930 Brake kit which can run around $4500

    With the anticipated power for this car, what would be the safest way to proceed.

    The car will seldom see track time but will mostly be enjoyed on the street. So I don't anticipate a great amount of heat and fade issue but this could come into play.

    I have not been able to talk myself into a bid dollar brake upgrade. Hoping to get some insight whether the stock brakes should be sufficient to do the job they were intended to do, stop the car when asked.
    S Registry #1280
    1970 911T
    1968 911 FWT
    1965 356 SC

  2. #2
    If you're going to go fast, I think it's worth going to the larger calipers, but you don't have to go with S calipers. The SC or Carrera calipers work fine. The reason I say this is that I had problems with glazing my pads with the standard front T calipers. I think that the pad material had something to do with it, but I also think that this was a sign that the temperature on those smaller pads gets seriously high, in front.
    Tom F.
    Long Beach, CA

  3. #3
    Senior Member MoparBoy72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom F. View Post
    If you're going to go fast, I think it's worth going to the larger calipers, but you don't have to go with S calipers. The SC or Carrera calipers work fine. The reason I say this is that I had problems with glazing my pads with the standard front T calipers. I think that the pad material had something to do with it, but I also think that this was a sign that the temperature on those smaller pads gets seriously high, in front.
    X2; you will need 3.5" spacing on the struts. FYI, I just picked up a set of '84 Carrera calipers to rebuild for about $100;
    -Andrew
    '72 911E
    '82 931, '92 968, '93 968
    S Reg #1074

  4. #4
    Neunelfer (Eric) with PMB in SLC UT has what you need. Brembo brakes that are as good as the S in size, but no modification required. Here's a link:

    http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalo...52/6862358.htm
    Olin - Member #1375
    ░▒▓█▀▄▀▄▀▄█▓▒░
    1972 911T

    Original
    -117 Light Yellow -15x6 Fuchs (9120/M400) -S Appearance (M470) -5 Speed Transmission (9590)

    Options added
    -Houndstooth Sport Seats (M409) -Rear sway bar (9228)
    -H4's -BTB Fog Lts (M429) -Amber TTG Driving Lts (9420/M432)
    -380mm Steering Wheel -Becker Mexico -Roof Mounted Luggage/Ski Rack (9503)
    -A/C (M559) -Rear Fog Lt (M571) -Rear Wiper (9290) -Wheel Trim (M426) -Footrest (9563)

  5. #5
    Senior Member Minoclan's Avatar
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    I did the boxster setup for about $1,500. It works great.
    2007 GT3
    1999 996 Track RAT
    1970 911 T Tangerine

    R Gruppe Member
    911 S Registry Member #1609

  6. #6
    B-b-buy Bushwood?!?!
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    My '69 911E has stock brakes with stainless steel brake lines, super blue brake fluid and small air scoops leading directly to the brakes. I not only drive my car on a near daily basis in annoying L.A. stop and go traffic with no brake issues, I regularly track the car with the Porsche Owners Club at Streets of Willow and Willow Springs with summer air temps as high as 108 degrees, running up to 25 minutes of continuous laps at 10/10's, with no brake issues or fading problems. At Auto Club Speedway, running the "roval," I accelerate out of the banked NASCAR turn 2 with my right foot on the floor in fifth gear. Once on the back straight, I have to lift and stand on my brakes to make Turn 3, which is a more than 90 degree left. Hopefully, while driving on the street, you will never need to stop your car from about 110 MPH to 20 MPH. But just know, your properly tuned and set-up stock brakes will handle the job just fine.
    Sandy Isaac
    '69 911E
    #543

  7. #7
    I would imagine that with a 2.8 or 3.0L you will need bigger than T brakes. How big will depend on the track and how fast you drive. Until you upgrade the motor I wouldn't be too concerned. You will know it's time for bigger brakes when you experience fade or discolored brake fluid. I went thru T brakes, S brakes and Carrera brakes, until I ended up with 964 front calipers and Carrera rear calipers. This combo is relatively cheap and has worked with 3.2L, 2,8L and 3.6L.
    Randy Wells
    Automotive Writer/Photographer/Filmmaker
    www.randywells.com/blog
    www.hotrodfilms.com

    Early S Registry #187

  8. #8
    Goldmember ttweed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max (SD) View Post
    The car will seldom see track time but will mostly be enjoyed on the street.
    If this is the intended use, then I would say that a stock system would be adequate, given attention to proper maintenance and upgrades to fluid, pads and cooling. That said, you need to think about what your personal definition of "seldom" is, and allow for the fact that once you start running track events, it is hard to hold back (the slippery slope syndrome and whatnot .... )

    Should I just upgrade to the 3.5" spacer strut?
    If you have the smaller 3" brake brackets and are going to be going through the suspension anyway, then upgrading to the 3.5" struts right off the bat would
    be smart, I think, and save money in the end, since you would avoid rebuilding two sets (your current one and the set you would eventually swap in) as well as paying for two alignment jobs (which is no joke--a proper 4-wheel alignment and corner balance will run you $4-500 at most shops). I would think about having the spindles raised too, if you're going to lower the car, and the shocks revalved for whatever T-bars you are going to run while you're at it, then just install 3.2 Carrera brakes to begin with. That is a very cost-effective upgrade, and there are many early cars running hard on the track with them, plus a cooling kit, hi-temp fluid and pads, without brake fade. You would need to add a LOT of power to need anything bigger, and the next step up to 930 brakes or larger gets really expensive.

    Just my $0.02,
    TT
    Tom Tweed
    Early S Registry #257
    R Gruppe #232
    Rennlist Founding Member #990416-1164
    PCA National DE Instructor
    Read my surf novel!

  9. #9
    For a street runner I'm quite sure the stock T brakes, when in correct working order, will do just fine. It's not like you'll be going 110 mph on the streets anyways.....right?
    Paul Schooley
    71 911T (RS wanabe w/2.7L juice)
    S Reg #863
    R Gruppe #330

  10. #10
    very interesting thread.... I am also planning to replace the standard steel m brake calipers on my 911E 1972 with S-alloy calipers. I have learned that the m calipers have 3" size fittings and the S-calipers need 3,5" fittings. I initially thought that I need new shock struts now but - if my english is not too bad - it seems that there are spacer sets to make the s-calipers on my standard struts possible... Am I right or did I get you wrong? Do you know where to source these parts?
    thks for your help!
    wolfgang

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