What color is your 911? How do you make sense out of non-sense??

[execmalibu]

What color is your 911? I bet many of you have no idea!

I know some of us have argued with our painter that the correct color for a 1973 911 in bright red is called India Red! Our painter insists that it is called Guards red... You would be right...and WRONG!


In many cases your 911 is actually 2 colors!!! CRAZY eh?

I just got a second 1973 color chart at the Lit Meet and was going to sell one on ebay.. I was studying the 2 books and found some VERY DISTURBING and CONFUSING info!

One of the books is the color sample book that would be with the salesman when you were ordering your new 1973 911. It has the actual material swatches and paint samples. The other book is the 1973 parts dept copy for ordering paint for repairs this book has photos of the materials and paint.


First I noticed that the parts dept color chart has 32 colors (including optional colors) the other book (salesmans book) only has 29 colors. I started trying to figure out which colors were missing from the salesmans copy and that was where it started to get very weird and confusing!

For example in the salesmans book there is a bright red color called India Red with number #2525. There is no India Red in the parts dept book but there is a color called Guards Red with the same 2525 number!

The same problem for a Dalmation Blue #4848 that was in the salesmans book but called Oxford Blue #4848 in the parts dept book...

A while back there was a post about the color Raspberry #4545 and there was a lot of confusion from our members... No wonder! In the parts dept book it is called Rose Red! #4545...

I found a color called Signal Yellow #5252 in the parts dept book...
But wait! there is another color on the next page also called Signal Yellow but with a number E2E2

It gets worse! ALL of the colors in the parts book have different numbers for Coupe and Targa!!!

Guards Red for a coupe is #2525 Guards Red for a Targa is #2510!

What the PHUCK is the difference between paint sprayed on a Coupe or a Targa? Why two numbers for the same color?

I listed to book on ebay if you guys are interested... I would end the auction..

[naparsei]

Could you post the samples you have for #4545? That would be awesome.

[HughH]

What the PHUCK is the difference between paint sprayed on a Coupe or a Targa? Why 2 numbers for the same color?

The difference is the amount of paint needed to repaint the car. The number in this case (especially for parts dept) signifies both colour and quantity


on the other discrepancies (except for guards red which i have not heard about before - what is the printing date?) some colours like Dalmatian blue were known by different names in different markets. Fraise, rose red and raspberry (all the same colour) are a good example of this.

[Rennman]

For an RS it was Viper green and for the other 911s it was kelly or Emerald all code 225!

Don

[davep]

Do you want the short explanation or the long one?
There are color numbers, paint codes and marketing codes.
example Glazurblau (in English: Glacier blue) has colour # 326, and this number is pretty much a constant over the years. The matching paint code is 66 (6666 for Coupe & 6610 for Targa); 6666 means 66 body & 66 roof on a Coupe or 66 body and 10 roof on the Targa ( you guessed it: 10 is black for the Targa roof.) Ah, but this is the chart for 1973; they never used the code 6666 or 6610 on the paint tags in 1973. These codes were only used during the 1970 & 1971 model years. From 1972 the code format stamped into the badge was xxx-y-z; where xxx was the paint # 326 in this example, then 9 for the Porsche factory where the paint was applied ( or 8 if you have an RS or RSR for a different factory) followed by 1 or 2 or 3 for the different paint suppliers.

Different names for the same color are quite common, and often that is a translation thing. For example your rose red code 45 is often referred to as raspberry; the original German is fraise which is properly translated as strawberry, but many here just call it pink.

Confused even more? Try building a complete chart from 1964 to even just 1983. My heads is always spinning. Then there are many custom colors for which we have only a code #.

OH yeah, the E2? Yet another marketing code series, but one for the books because it never appeared on the badges.

[execmalibu]

Sorry to be he bearer of the bad news but in this case you are wrong Grasshopper!D

1. The paint code number has nothing to do with the quantity! According to that theory any touchup paint with the same paint code number would be enough to paint a car... I dont think so!

I have also purchased from the dealer both pints and gallons of factory paint both had the same code number! You certainly would not order a gallon to paint your deck lid. Black also has the same code #1010 for both Coupe and Targa try to explain that!

Plus the part about the 4545 for coupe and 4510 for Targa because there is black paint for the Targa roof is also ridiculous...
First the roof was vinyl and NEVER painted, second if you are referring to the Targa Bar up to 1975-76 the Targa Bar was Stainless Steel! Then after 1975 they were black but anodized... Not painted!

Then to add of more confusion I just looked at my 1972 color chart... I only checked one color and although in both the 1972 and 1973 books the color was called fraise (rose red) they had different paint code numbers 4545 and 3333! But amazingly they have the same part number! What a mess!

Here is a photo of the 1972 and 73 page plus the color sample for raspberry

[davep]

I never said the code had anything to do with quantity, and in that respect you are correct. I do stand by my assertation of the 10 code for the targa roof; yes I know it was vinyl, and the 914/6 had fiberglass, but the roofs were always black, and the code for black is 10. Look at the black coupes and targas for example: 1010 for both, coincidence?

I'm fairly certain 45 is Fraise which has color # 024; 33 I believe is Ravenna Green, and yes I came across that error years ago.

[sabby]

Having been in the Collision repair/paint business for years and having taught the subject in college, I can tell you that we could care less about the "name" of a color. Every paint code of every car of every year refers to a particular formula or mix of various toners of particular paint systems. ie: If I were to paint your vintage Porsche in single stage Glasurit (currently "LINE 22"). I would go strictly by the code # on the number plate. I would then research the correct mix of LINE 22 toners to make either 1 quart or one gallon. Mixing is an additive process done with a digital scale. You would simply add the first toner to the weight specified, the next toner to the next weight and so on. If you were only painting a fender and wanted to match the rest of the car, you likely would have to use your eye to fine tune the mix. Its only the number on the plate attached to the car that counts....

[execmalibu]

Sabby,

I also have been involved in restoration of early Porsches for over 40 years... I know how to order paint and how the colors are made.

If the code on the car has 2 different numbers in the factory books then the formulas for the paint companies (Glasurit, Dupont, etc) will be different!

I just went through this with Metallic green #8484. The original color on the car in hidden spots (no sun exposure) was different then what the formulas from old factory books produced.

You also do not explain why the same color has a different name (Dalmation Blue/Oxford Blue) in two 1973 Porsche factory books for the same year and model car...

In addition the paint codes do not aways match the color on the car!

My 2006 Mercedes SL65 is Black Opel #189 (a very dark metallic blue). My wifes 2002 CLK is also Black Opel #189 but they are different colors, one color is more green... I repeat they both are #189

When I was at the paint store to buy a pint for painting a spoiler they showed me 9 different color chips! I repeat 9!!! All for Mercedes paint code 189 and they each had a different formula... Luckily I was driving the car and we matched the color.

My point is that many of us are trying to restore these Porsches to their "ORIGINAL" condition and when the factory books from in the day are a mess it makes back to original restorations very difficult...

Plus when the Porsche experts are arguing about what is correct for the smallest details "thats Dalmation Blue.. No thats Oxford Blue" and it then turns out they are both right or wrong then who do you rely on?

[davep]

My point is that many of us are trying to restore these Porsches to their "ORIGINAL" condition and when the factory books from in the day are a mess it makes back to original restorations very difficult...

Plus when the Porsche experts are arguing about what is correct for the smallest details "thats Dalmation Blue.. No thats Oxford Blue" and it then turns out they are both right or wrong then who do you rely on?

I can fully understand that. I've been doing a compilation of paint codes from 1965 through 1983 and it is tough. That does not include all the variations in actual paint formula's to actually make a pint. Of course, the old formulas use old tints and base materials that are no longer available. I'm no expert, just an ex-squirt.