intro and build question

[bigbrowndog]

I sold my 69 911 years ago. I am going start looking for another project as my 113sl just doesn’t make my heart beat fast enough. I am considering looking for another long hood only going the “hot rod” sleeper route. I am considering a couple options and est. it will take at least a year to find my car and another 1-2 to get it where I want it.

My thoughts are something like this early long hood, 3.0 or larger disp, coilovers, and reduce weight where practical. This would be a street driven car that would spend some time a track days. I am just trying to gather my thoughts and start looking into this as a project. First I have to dispose of the sl, a boat and a number of other parts stuff that has been laying around for years. The most unique is the original maint booklet for my dads 300sl that was euro delivered to D. Feinsteins first husband.

I am looking for suggestions and what type of performance could be expected? I know some dads with evo’s / sti’s /dinan bimmers that I would like to be able to compete with. What I would like to hear is thoughts on if you were building this type of project how would you do it from a clean slate? I would like to keep the budget $30-$40K for a streetable performer.

[kenikh]

I sold my 69 911 years ago. I am going start looking for another project as my 113sl just doesn’t make my heart beat fast enough. I am considering looking for another long hood only going the “hot rod” sleeper route. I am considering a couple options and est. it will take at least a year to find my car and another 1-2 to get it where I want it.

My thoughts are something like this early long hood, 3.0 or larger disp, coilovers, and reduce weight where practical. This would be a street driven car that would spend some time a track days. I am just trying to gather my thoughts and start looking into this as a project. First I have to dispose of the sl, a boat and a number of other parts stuff that has been laying around for years. The most unique is the original maint booklet for my dads 300sl that was euro delivered to D. Feinsteins first husband.

I am looking for suggestions and what type of performance could be expected? I know some dads with evo’s / sti’s /dinan bimmers that I would like to be able to compete with. What I would like to hear is thoughts on if you were building this type of project how would you do it from a clean slate? I would like to keep the budget $30-$40K for a streetable performer.

How much work will you do yourself? By the 1-2 year timeframe it sounds like a good bit, so the $30K - $40K budget will be adequate to buy you some reasonable runway.

To dig into the heart of the question: you want to run with Evos, STis and tuner Bimmers? Not hard to do, not cheap, but not hard and again, doable in your budget.

Some key points:
Suspension: If you aren't tracking the car, pass on the coilovers. A lot of money for little to no benefit on the street

Power: You'll save more money and headache by buing a 3.6 and G50 transmission.

• I'd shoot for a '95 OBD-I Varioram 3.6 if I had my pick of 3.6s. If something more vintage is your cup of tea (like me), you have a bevy of options, none cheap, all VERY satisfying.
• My choice would be a 3.2 short stroke with CNC ported heads, twin plugs, GE80/100-like cams and individual throttle bodies. It'll fly like a turbo and scare the women and children.
• Speaking of turbos, if you are targetting Evos, STis and Dinans, you might also consider a turbo motor. If you decide to go this route, I am happy to share my extensive thoughts.

All of the above can crack the 300HP mark (although a stock 3.6 won't, it feels like it does), which should make the heavier competition take note.

If you are going the sleeper hot rod route, the car needs to be narrow bodied, which can be a handful with big power...it is manageable if done right. Again, if you go this route, I am also happy to share my thoughts.

Fire away with any more questions.

[Longballa]

It will cost more to go with the 3.2SS but it will be worth it. It's a great motor to build.

[bigbrowndog]

Kenik/LB

Thanks for getting back with me quickly. Let me fill in a couple of gaps. Yes, I expect to do much to most of the work myself. I too like the vintage route nothing really beats that sound. I still have the basis for a 2.0l sitting in pieces. Crank, rods, mag. case, E heads and most of the bits and pieces to put her back together (less pistons/cyls and induction). The issue is torques (as the Brits say) I don’t think I can get the “easy” power out of the smaller plant? Are there turbo kits and would it be worth while on a 2.0? as I recall there was some way to bump the displacement either fly cutting the heads and using 2.7l pistons/cyls or something similar but there was an issue I don’t remember?

I am not familiar with the 3.2SS

The chassis, I was thinking look for a solid T/E or 912 as a basis (don’t think I could get into an S on budget) and then go from there.

Again, I am thinking ahead and plan on lurking quite a bit.

[kenikh]

Let's set targets; that is the only way to narrow this down:

1. Is there a motor you have driven that has the character you are looking for? By character I mean power curve, 'revviness', 'torquiness', etc...fluffy terms are OK. This is the baseline. BTW, doesn't have to be a 911 motor.
   
2. Torque...where do you prefer it? Low like a small block V8, with the RPM falling off high, High with no bottom end like a Honda S2000 or somewhere in between?
   
3. What is your target RPM redline?
   
4. HP? How much is enough or is 'enough' a 4 letter word?

With answers to these, we'll know exactly what motor you should build.


The 3.2SS is simply any variation of 3 liter SC motor with 98mm pistons mated the the 9 bolt 70.4mm crank. They are not all created equal, as Scott can attest.

[t6dpilot]

BBD, sounds like what you have in parts is a good starting point for a 2.5ss. Maybe not the BIG HP you are looking for, but is certainly enough to create excitement. And if you don't like that route, let me know if you want to "part" with the parts.

[bigbrowndog]

Let's set targets; that is the only way to narrow this down:

1. Is there a motor you have driven that has the character you are looking for? By character I mean power curve, 'revviness', 'torquiness', etc...fluffy terms are OK. This is the baseline. BTW, doesn't have to be a 911 motor.
   
2. Torque...where do you prefer it? Low like a small block V8, with the RPM falling off high, High with no bottom end like a Honda S2000 or somewhere in between?
   
3. What is your target RPM redline?
   
4. HP? How much is enough or is 'enough' a 4 letter word?

With answers to these, we'll know exactly what motor you should build.


The 3.2SS is simply any variation of 3 liter SC motor with 98mm pistons mated the the 9 bolt 70.4mm crank. They are not all created equal, as Scott can attest.

I'm not looking for stump pulling tq, but something enough to not have to gear down to reasonably accelerate without lugging the engine at freeway speeds. My base line is a 2.0 E with massaged heads and S cams. With standard gears and 225/50/16 in the rear. Going up and down some of the freeway hills required gearing down needed to be on the cam. I want to be able to drive something like I5 and not have to downshift accept the Siskiyous and the Grave vine.

I don't need to rev to 8k, 7.5 ish would be fine. I have to think and reflect about where I want it to come on the cam's.

The 250 - 300hp easy to say and transplanting a 3.6 might be the easiest and most reliable. It might also have the least "soul"?

I can't say I have been in a long hood with 250whp and 200lbft. But I would think that would easily get me in into the performance range I am talking about? Maybe the thing to do is build the 2.5 w/ carbs to product 200ish any drive it and change if it's not right. It appears there is always a market for used good Porsche motors and I could sell it running in the car?

thanks for clarifying the 3.2ss