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Thread: Ten Fifty-nine

  1. #901
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    Just an Engine . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by frederik View Post
    . . . That engine is looking just fine! But you’ll love it even more after it has been rebuilt. Great that you’re sticking to stock . . .
    Thanks, Frederik --- looking forward to getting this engine back running + up-to-speed

    I sought-out a 2.2 car for a number of reasons. In addition to their dog-leg ‘box and a real oil cooler in their nose, these cars were also Porsche’s last high-compression street engines sold here in the US. And even though the subsequent 2.4s have more power (better torque, ‘easier’ GB, blah-blah-blah), the 2.2s have a ‘snap’ that I really enjoy. Sure-sure --- high-compression + short stroke = a bit of a handful . . . but that’s pretty-much/exactly what I signed-up for

    Anyway, with a re-build now needed, it's tempting to try to ‘improve’ things while we’re in there. And with all the development that Porsche put into these engines --- not-to-mention the miles + experience that others have built-up over the decades . . . there’s a ton that can be done. But as exciting as all that sounds --- I mean, how often will I have the opportunity to do this? . . . the truth is, I bought this car ‘cause it was stock

    Put Another Way --- I wouldn’t ‘ve bought it . . . if it wasn’t

    And it’s not like I haven’t made my share of ‘improvements’ along the way --- seat, steering wheel, lid, tank, usw . . . all Faktory bits, or contemporary ones, anyway, but definitely not there when I started. But those are the kinds of things I would’ve done Back in the Day, anyway . . . added more for self-gratification rather than for any extra performance. (Although I do actually fit inside the Nasty Car, now)


    'Sides --- everything I’ve stuck on? . . . 'll come right off


    And everything I've done is ‘old,’ anyway. What I do to/with 1059, is all about what an ‘old car’ means to me. Except for one brief/half-hearted attempt, I’ve never restored a car --- or owned one. But I have been lucky enough to ’ve owned several very un-restored ones. And while they may not ‘ve been the cleanest or prettiest --- looking at the some of their un-touched original details always gave me pause, like . . .

    . . . the dusty/musty spare + bumper jack, both un-touched + tucked away in the back of the trunk of my old Super Duty . . .

    . . . that ridiculous black-washed floor sheet-metal, tar paper battery bed, and date-coded hub caps on old my Roadster . . .

    . . . the half-century of dust settled in 1059’s smuggler’s box


    Out-of-sight, inconsequential stuff, maybe --- even silly, I suppose . . . but the kind o’ things that ‘re easily missed or messed-with, lost or damaged --- or just scrubbed away . . . impossible to ‘restore’ . . .

    . . . and irresistible to me

    This engine is like that. We --- John (Forbes) + Tony + Marco . . . have managed to coax a whole ‘nother decade of use out of something that was already a little iffy (not-to-mention ~40-years-old) when I got it. And though I had hoped to do one more Big Drive before it needed this kind serious attention . . .

    . . . here it is . . . the last Big Job. And even though it is ‘just an engine’ --- I feel the same way about this part as I do about that old fire extinguisher sheet-metal screwed into the floor, or those scraps of fabric glued into the glove box. I’d like to leave 1059 recognizable as something Porsche built --- and that’s passed through 7 more owners, since . . . and that includes this engine. Ok-K --- protect the Mg bits, sure . . . but then just clean the rest up . . . leave things alone

    I mean, as long everything works properly --- k, just a liiiiitle nicer, maybe . . . then I’ll be more-than happy


    Put it Another Way . . .


    . . . I’m not re-building this engine--- or owning this car . . . just to look at it




    High-ho, Silver!




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  2. #902
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    More Just an Engine . . .

    . . . from Marco, today . . .

    '. . . Motor’s apart. Came apart pretty well … a little nasty, of course, but nothing we didn'’t expect to find.

    Some items of note:

    1. The throttle bodies were rebuilt by Eurometrix at some point in the past. I could tell by the throttle plates, but when I wiped everything off I could see the “Eurometrix” stamp on the body.
    2. The injection pump was opened and likely serviced (as evidenced by blue paint marks on the cover screws … Gus at Pacific Fuel Injection uses yellow paint, but he may have used blue back in the day)
    3. The top end was rebuilt at some point (I think you have notes on this). Whomever did the job did clean work and marked the cylinder heads 1-6 so they went back to where they came from.
    4. The cylinder head casting dates are all 11/69 and 12/69
    5. The timing gears are dated 1/70 (cam timing was perfect side to side, and to the spec in the book).
    6. Found a dead roach in the oil cooler
    7. Some debris went through this motor at some point … nothing horrible, but it looks like sand or something based on the light scoring on the cylinder walls, bearings, and journals.
    8. There’s black, burned oil residue on everything indicating that the motor got really hot at some point. But there’s no heat-related damage that I can see and so far none of the bearings are showing copper. So that’s good news.
    9. The pistons and cylinders are pretty beat up. There’s some serious scoring and shine on a few of the barrels; same for the pistons. But, considering the mileage and items #7 and #8, none of that is surprising.


    Going forward here’s the plan:

    1. Finish disassembling the crank cases and get them washed up to take them to the machine shop.
    2. Disassemble the crank, check the bearings, and clean and measure all the journals (rods and mains).
    3. Disassemble and clean the heads and cam towers and get the heads to the machinist to have the valve job done.
    4. Clean the cams and rockers and check for wear/damage.
    5. Box and ship the fuel injection pieces to their respective rebuilders.


    Overall I think the motor is in fine shape. All the pieces save for the pistons and cylinders should be easily refurbished, and barring any major damage to the camshafts I think you’re in really good shape on the rebuild.

    So, why was it acting like such a bitch? Probably because it was just so worn out. The throttle bodies were bypassing a lot of false air, the injection pump is probably just as long in the tooth as the throttle bodies, the Ps and Cs are pretty worn, and the motor was using oil. It was just tired and unhappy and ready to be overhauled.

    I’ve got some photos that I’ll send over for you, but I’m going to keep moving on this thing so if you want to come have a look I suggest you do so by Friday. My goal is to scatter the pieces next week and then start spending your deposit money. We do need to get on the telephone to discuss a few things like the head studs, oil pump, oil bypass mod, rod bolts, and refinishing of certain things (NOT THE AIRBOX)
    . . .'




    'Hey, Marco . . .

    Glad to hear you like what you've seen, so far --- appreciate the post mortem . . . and thanks for sharing some of the nerdy date stuff, too. With any kind of luck, we'll never see that stuff again, at least in this lifetime

    As always, keep doing what you think needs doing --- I know you'll try to save/re-use/rehabilitate whatever you can. And can't wait to see your pics! --- especially the messier, more-outta focus, poorly-composed ones. (I'm an expert Bad Picture-taker)

    And I'll be by on Friday AM

    And thanks for doing this for me --- and putting-up with me, too, Man
    . . .'



    Love this Guy. Wouldn't run this Nasty Car without him




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  3. #903
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    More Just an Engine . . .

    . . . some pics . . .




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  4. #904
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    More Just an Engine . . .

    . . . swung by Marco's today --- t' see the engine in bits before everything gets done. Think 'pre-game'

    Here's the case

    1st time some of this has seen day-light since it all got put-together Way Back. And still looks pretty tidy! That dark schmutz is the trace of some kind of over-heating episode --- also WAY Back

    This 'll all get cleaned-up then prepped for re-building. Re-machined --- align-bored, etc . . . then black oxide on the exterior to preserve the Mg . . . but that's it

    No shuffle pinning, no 'boat-tailing,' zero other nonsense. Reasoning is that Mg is not exactly the most robust material to be putting a lot of power through, as it is --- it's just stupid-light . . . so drilling a bunch o' extra holes + removing material 'just 'cause' doesn't make the case any stronger --- or any sense . . . especially for what will always be a 'street-duty' engine . . . w/ me, anyway

    One deviation = using 993 head studs for the re-build. . . better thermal-expansion properties for a Mg case. Also, these have this really cool coating that keeps 'em from pulling out, once they're torqued in. Beats loctite . . . or a pulled-out stud



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  5. #905
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    More Just an Engine . . .

    That evidence of an over-heat kinda surprised us . . .

    . . . 1059 has always been pretty cold-blooded for me --- meaning she takes forever to get any oil temp. At first I thought it was just a lazy gauge . . . but all of the instruments were taken care of at a previous service, a while back, now . . .
    https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...l=1#post730405

    Anyway, with that --- + with my comments regarding the structural integrity of a Mg case . . .

    . . . we are NOT doing the oil by-pass mod

    Marco's got a Guy who'll 'optimize' (OK-K --- 'hot-rod') the OG 2-rib oil pump . . . but that's it


    Beyond that? . . .

    . . . I'm counting on proper preparation of all the bits, careful assembly by Marco, modern lubricants --- and Porsche's own original engineering . . . to get this engine through another fifty (or so) years





    Clean what's dirty
    Fix what's broken
    Replace what's missing
    Restore only as a last resort . . .

    . . . and don't forget to drive it!





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  6. #906
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    More Just an Engine . . .

    More stuff . . .

    Looks like the cooling shroud came through in fine shape. Some light crazing on the surface, but looks pretty-much intact, otherwise. 50 years of use have toasted the thing into this pinky-orangeish sorta color. Also --- notice the scorching around some of the slots for the throttle-bodies? And on the intake bells? More on that, later

    Meanwhile . . .

    Engine 's off to the Machinist, this week --- vendor = classified (sorry). Adding oil-squirters. I believe these were introduced on the ‘71s? --- they aim a shot of oil at the bottom of each piston . . . helps with cooling --- which is why the 71s have always been my favorite Early 911 engine. And since this feature ‘s addable, we will be doing so, here, thank you

    Gus will do the MFI pump

    Throttle bodies had Eurometrix marks on ‘em --- as well as Mr Blast’s unique style of throttle plates (which Marco really likes) . . . so those ‘ll be going there, again

    And speaking of throttles --- notice anything in the pics? . . .

    . . . like that singeing around the mouth of one of the bells?

    Looks like some slight fire-damage, eh? Just the thought of any o’ that plastic stuff catching fire on top of that Mg case + throttles = total nightmare. Marco ‘s replacing those plastic bells with metal ones --- which is fine by me. I was actually surprised to see these weren’t metal, already --- thought that any plastic intake stuff didn’t really get started until the ‘72s. Oh, well

    I’ve wondered why Porsche would stick plastic bits anywhere in/near an engine, anyway --- let-alone in the induction tract. (See ‘cold-start system’) Besides, irrespective of any weight or cost issues --- I would think metal stuff would be more durable + last longer (+ feels better, too, IMO), anyway. Not crazy about plastic bits in cars, in general --- especially if there’s a metal equivalent/predecessor

    Anyway --- we’re also going with the collared ‘Turbo’-style mechanical tensioners




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  7. #907
    Just for the record Rick, those are hydraulic tensioners. I'm sure Marco will update the idler arms. Are those new pistons /cylinders under the cart?
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  8. #908
    Early S Reg #1395 LongRanger's Avatar
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    More Just an Engine . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by edmayo View Post
    . . . Just for the record Rick, those are hydraulic tensioners. I'm sure Marco will update the idler arms . . .
    There you go, Ed --- + corrected my post





    Quote Originally Posted by edmayo View Post
    . . . Are those new pistons /cylinders under the cart? . . .
    Yup --- switching over to Nikasil (Mahle) from the Birals she came with. Although it was doable, Marco told me the cost to re-furb the Birals wouldn't be smart money spent, so that was a short conversation. And I'm not 2nd-guessing him on this. Besides, that was the direction Porsche went? (+ lighter, too?) Anyway --- another thread . . .

    https://www.early911sregistry.org/fo...Nikasil-Issues

    The Birals that were taken out didn't look too bad. Most of the cross-hatching was gone, and one of the pistons had scuffed its barrel --- but the others had just worn through their rings. And except for a coupla twinks, even the cooling fins were still intact

    There's still some crack-checking to do --- crank + case . . . but . . . lucky so far



    Fingers crossed



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  9. #909
    Rick, I put the nikasil Mahles in my 2.4 S a couple years ago, you're gonna love them! The break-in trip was to the last Renn-sport, was almost back home before I had to add the first quart of oil.
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  10. #910
    Senior Member BrentF's Avatar
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    Re: Post #897

    That was a impressive reply from Marco. Not all engine rebuilders are good communicators.
    Brent
    '70 911S
    '68 TR250

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