911ST, 911 ST or 911 S/T?

[KS Carrera]

OK, so which is it?

I keep running across all three interpretations of the numbers/letters, so which is factory correct? Starkey refers to the car as a 911 S/T, others as 911 ST and still others as 911ST (no gap).

Who among you (oh great and worthy people!) can definitively say which is correct? And, better still, show proof!

[KS Carrera]

Oh Raj, that's so cruel! I am not worthy, oh master. I am but a willing pupil in the great school of life, ready to learn (and quick to run away from a sound beating when things go wrong…). Well?

Well, I base the great 914/6 or 914-6 choice on the badging, so 914-6. Unless I forget and write 914/6, of course. And VW-Porsche every time (except when it's just Porsche). Damn, life's confusing.

[70SATMan]

Even the RS M491 was not known as the RSR internally til much later(But then again the order sheet is still M491).So,all this stuff is really confusing to me.

Help me.

Raj

Raj,

Wasn't there a RSR owners/Drivers manual produced with the production cars? I think Iv'e seen a picture of one which had RSR on the cover??

Personally, I switch my terms purposely all the time to hide my confusion.
I hear the next hot buzz term is 911 L/R.

[mike curnow]

SATMAN

You are correct on the RSR statement.
I have the 1973 RSR Parts Manual dated Feb 1973 and it says nothing using the term RSR. I also have the owners manual, which on the cover says the following


SPORTS INFORMATION
CARRERA
RACING VERSION

FIA Regulations Appendix J Group 4

Nothing on the cover page about RSR, however on page 1 it says the following.

In the following Sports-Information Circular is the Carrera RSR described. We have only included information not pertaining to the normal Carrera RS.

The spare parts catalog for the Carrera RSR, can be obtained directly from our Sports Spare Parts Dept.

So by at least Feb. 1973 the factory was calling it an RSR, and the manual uses the term RSR throughout.

Mike

Raj,

Wasn't there a RSR owners/Drivers manual produced with the production cars? I think Iv'e seen a picture of one which had RSR on the cover??

Personally, I switch my terms purposely all the time to hide my confusion.
I hear the next hot buzz term is 911 L/R.

[KS Carrera]

Yes, but what about 911ST, 911 ST and 911 S/T?

[stout]

Keith,

If you really dig into this (and my guess is you're well into that curve) I suspect you'll find that a perfect answer is tough to pin down.

The 914-6 someone pointed out is a great example. There is plenty of literature out there with "914/6." That said, the BADGE on the car has a small, smooth dash raised up from the pebbled background finish between the 4 and the 6. Therefore, I prefer 914-6, but it doesn't bother me when I see 914/6. Moving further along similar lines, we have all heard of the "914-6 GT," but the cars varied widely (as with T/R, S-T, etc.) and the factory even considered its M471 cars "GTs" for homologation purposes. Making matters more confusing, I know at least one Porsche expert who I respect who argues the term 914-6 GT has little if any basis in factory designation, but that "914R" does appear in factory documentation. So perhaps 914R is more correct than 914-6 GT, but I don't think there's any turning back now. Ditto for 904, which really should be Carrera GTS.

Among the cars we're talking about, a very thin slice of the picture, 911R is pretty easy, because we got the badge and the modifier is a single letter, never separate. Like 911T, 911E, and 911S.

It gets harder after that. We looked hard at the 911 S-T when doing an article a while back, and "S-T" was the style that seemed most appropriate according to the research of Ron Gruener and Bruce Anderson. That said, "911 S-T" goes against Porsche badging style tradition, which seems to put a single letter with the model number (911E, 928S, etc.) and separate/offset the letters where there is more than two items (911 SC, 944 S2, 928 S4, etc.).

Bottom line, I'm not sure there is a perfect answer. YMMV.

pete

[911T1971]

Ray, if Barth wrote ST in 1990 not shure they did also around 1969-71.

______

If i correctly interprete the infos, it looks like back then it was commonly described as 911 S GT or Group 4 911 S.
Most competition classifications list the car simply as 911 S (Group 4).

So far I cant find in any period literature w. the description ST or S/T or S-T. (maybe others can help).

Also, some infos about the 914/6 writing.
You'll find also the 914-6 writing but much more often its 914/6 and Gr.4 914/6 or simply 914/6 GT.


Christophorus, June 71, page 19


Christophorus, June 72, page 39


Christophorus, August 70, page 18


Christophorus, Oct. 69, page 15



Christophorus, Dec. 70, page 17

[72targa]

So the correct answer is "none of the above"? Or 911 S (modified for racing)? Interesting documents, by the way.

[70SATMan]

The 914-6 someone pointed out is a great example. There is plenty of literature out there with "914/6."
pete

Sports Purposes Manual lists it as 914/6 which is all I need

[72targa]

http://www.toadhallracing.com/oppenh...tml#Background