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Thread: Alfa GTV v. Early 911T v. BMW 2002 (tii)

  1. #1
    Senior Member t6dpilot's Avatar
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    Alfa GTV v. Early 911T v. BMW 2002 (tii)

    OK guys, I would like to hear real world experiences on how these two other iconic makes compare with an early 911. If you added one to the stable, are they compelling enough to drive over our early 911s? Lets assume a T and not E's, S's, or hotrods. Stock to stock... I know, I know, the tii is sort of the S of 2002's, but let's look at budgetary numbers of $25k - really nice GTV (or GTA maybe?), 911T, 2002tii.

    So let's hear it guys - I know there are some that either have owned or do own one of these in addition to your early 911s. If you own both, do you frequently gravitate to one car or the other. Which one? My guess is that the 911 would always take precedence, but that is just my opinion.

    ChuckM? MarksGTV? Joetii? Thanks!
    Scott H.
    1969 Coupe LtWt
    1973.5 911T

  2. #2
    Hi Scott, see my GTV page for comparison with 911 -

    http://web.mac.com/alfaguy/Site/1973_ALFA.html

    As far as 2002 vs GTV they are similar with the exception of IRS on the 2002 make it better on bumpy
    roads. The GTV has more character in my opinion.
    Kjell "Shel" Nelin
    72 911T
    69 E-type OTS
    73 Lancia Fulvia
    Registry Member #1099
    Kjell Gruppen Member #1

    http://web.mac.com/alfaguy/Site/1972_911T.html

  3. #3
    I've never had a 2002 but have a 67 GTV and just sold my 73 911S. The Porsche was the most fun to drive because of the power, but I could drive it all day and never get a comment. The Alfa turns heads every time! As far as a GTA, add $100,000 to your budget to get one of those.
    1973 911S
    1967 Alfa GTV
    2002 Miata

  4. #4
    Die schönste Rennstrecke der Welt. Nordschleife's Avatar
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    Great question! I'm partial to the BMW 02s, but the Alfa does have the better looks, IMO. That said, now that I have a SWB Porsche, I'm hooked, especially on the air-cooled engine sound. But an old Alfa 1300/1600/1750 or 2000 is a beautiful thing to see out on the road or race track.

    European Car magazine compared the Alfa GTV2000 and Alpina 2002, here's the link to that article: http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...002/index.html

    As for the 2002Tii being a sort of 911S, may I suggest an alternative comparison/analogy:

    Basic 2002 = early pre-CIS 911T
    2002Ti and 1600Ti (dual carb, was the basis for most early 02 race cars in Europe) = early (pre-MFI) 911 S
    2002Tii = 911E (quicker, fuel injected engine, refined package)
    2002 Turbo = 1975 911 Turbo (no intercooler, hang-onto-your-seat-here-comes-the-boost - - WHAM!)

    The BMW 2002 came in two other body styles: cabrio and the "Touring" 3-door hatchback (Europe only). The early cabrios were a full drop top affair, while the later ones -- as built by Baur -- were a sort of targa soft-window design.

    I'm sure my 2002-to-911 comparison match-up is flawed, just my 2 cents! And I'm not quite sure where to suggest to categorize the products from the BMW tuning firms of the 60s and 70s, such as Alpina, GS-Tuning, Schnitzer or Keopchen BMW street and race 2002s...

    Best Regards,
    Andy
    Last edited by Nordschleife; 01-21-2011 at 03:24 AM.
    Early 911S Registry #1246
    1968 Porsche 911 Cotswold Blue/Schwartz #118 35153
    1962 Marcos G.T. 1000 Gullwing historic race car - now sold and racing in FIA events in Sweden
    ---------------------------------------
    "Pro Patria Vigilans"

  5. #5
    Hi Scott. Never driven a 2002 but I had a '74 GTV for quite a few years. They are great handling cars that are lacking power in my opinion. I upgraded my suspension and the handling got even better but I always craved for more HP. As much as I still love the GTV, my 911 is better in just about every regard.
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  6. #6
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    gotta say the 2002 in stock form is pretty tame compared to even a stock 911t, very tall, handles much more like a gentleman's sedan, where the 911 is a driver's car, a much more sporting proposition....the GTV always struck me as having that Italian beauty, but requiring the Italian mechanical intervention and the rust concerns
    looking for 1972 911t motor XR584, S/N 6121622

  7. #7
    Lew, you're so right about the rust. I wouldn't go near a GTV if it wasn't close to perfect, body wise. They rust on command... cold war Russian steel I think.
    But, it's one of the most beautiful cars ever designed.
    I have a website now:
    www.markmorrissey.org

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  8. #8
    Here is a slightly different perspective. I own a "GTV" derivative (Sort of), the Zagato-penned Junior Z. Granted, it comes with the 1600 power plant and not the 2litre. However, the car is a revelation to drive and considered the best driving one out of the Giulia range, due to shorter wheelbase, stiffer chassis (Built on spider platform) and the usually idiosyncratic Zagato touches. Needs to be kept on high RPMs as torque is non existant. The Alfa five speed is a marvelous gearbox, way better than the Porsche - short throws, precise, slick, fantastic gearing. The engine sound of that iconic twin cam marvelous and handling as sure footed as the 911. Yes, not that much power but not under powered either.

    Having said that, the 911 is still my all time favorite drivers car. The power delivery, the handling, the steering, the sound of that engine behind you. Power is more than adequate and build quality is better than the Alfa. However, the Alfa is a close second (Way above my 356). Hence, none will leave the staple for a very long time. In fact, I am looking to add to the Alfa side of the house. If anyone knows of a Sprint Speciale that is not red/ white/ silver ...

    Oh, and on the rust. All myth on the Alfa and cheap steel (That happened in the 70's - And more so with poor Lancia). Quite frankly, with 40 year-old cars it does not matter if Alfa, BMW or Porsche, they all rust and a lot have been cared for. No difference whatsoever, when buying one of those the same prudent ruels apply to all three of them.

    Mike
    Mike Baum #505


    57 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint
    60 Citroën ID
    61 Lancia Appia Vignale Convertibile
    64 Alfa Romeo Giulia TI
    66 Lancia Flavia Sport Zagato
    69 911S Targa (Soft Window)
    72 Alfa Romeo Junior Zagato 1600

  9. #9
    The BMW's are definitely a compelling alternative, especially when you need a little more practicality. My 4 year old and I enjoy our "coupe" all the time, and his little brother will soon join us.
    Todd
    '71T 3.2 Spec 911 #806
    '69 BMW E9 Coupe

  10. #10
    My wife wouldn't be too happy about this, but HA! Love this shot.
    If I had the resources, I'd own a GTA and a TZ1 ... never driven a GTA but I'm told they are amazing cars
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    I have a website now:
    www.markmorrissey.org

    Instagram: @Mark0Morrissey

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