Car litterally gives me a headache - with windows up and heater on: sleepy

[RickS]

The heat has always smelled a bit oily/exhausty...

On a trip to CA in Oct driving the Oregon coast - I felt very disoriented, to the point of passing out. Pulled over - aired the car out and sat for about 10 mins until I had my whits about me. From that point forward, when ever the heat is, I have fresh air open at the upper vents.

My uneducated diagnosis is CO poisening. The car has stainless heat exchangers from a leading manufacturer (name escapes me) and has been a problem since day one with them. First question: How best to determine which one is the culprit? (Disconnecting one at a time and driving around seems rather crude). And Second, if one is determined to be leaking, is it repairable or just need to be replaced?

[richemj]

As you can imagine....this is a HUGE problem with light, air cooled aircraft. Can't afford to pass out flying!

Any small airport or private plane supplier sells small CO testers...about the size of a credit card...that pilots keep in the cockpit. The ones 15 years ago had a small dime sized exposed tab that would turn black in the presence of CO. Technology has probably made them better and safer. Try googling aircraft and CO tester for results. Pretty cheap.

As for testing which side is contributing....block off hot air return from each independently and see which causes above tester to react...or react faster.

Good luck...and be safe!

[304065]

CO poisoning will KILL YOU

Many, many GA crashes have resulted from a tiny crack in an exhaust system.

Do not drive the car until you get this fixed

[RickS]

CO testers ordered. Appreciate the replies.

[bfunke]

CO has affinity for hemoglobin approximately 250x that of O2. Symptoms of mild intoxication exactly as you describe. Half life of carboxyhemoglobin on room air about 320 minutes but you can shorten this to 80 min by breathing oxygen. More severe cases of CO poisoning may require hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Mike is absolutely right about CO and general aviation dangers. Periodically light aircraft makers discover flaws in their exhaust systems and heat exchangers. Last well popularized one I recall was FAA Service Bulletin for SAMA CH-2000 aircraft with one piece cabin heat shrouds. Several other manufacturers like Mooney and Beech previously had similar issues.

Once you isolate which heat exchanger is faulty, carefully inspect for cracks, sooting, or brownish discoloration which could pinpoint a leak. Also check your exhaust joints for leaks. Let us know what you find.

[Bummler]

As you can imagine....this is a HUGE problem with light, air cooled aircraft. Can't afford to pass out flying!

Any small airport or private plane supplier sells small CO testers...about the size of a credit card...that pilots keep in the cockpit. The ones 15 years ago had a small dime sized exposed tab that would turn black in the presence of CO. Technology has probably made them better and safer. Try googling aircraft and CO tester for results. Pretty cheap.

As for testing which side is contributing....block off hot air return from each independently and see which causes above tester to react...or react faster.

Good luck...and be safe!

I have one in my garage which I keep an eye on when running the car for short periods inside. A cheap and valuable addition...

[RickS]

This is an admit your own stupidity conclusion to this thread. Starting 6 years ago, when the car had a windows out bare metal respray, I opted for a fiberglass rear tail/bumbers/rockers to save weight and to lose the 73 rubber baby buggy bumpers. When the fiberglass piece was installed, the original rubber strip between the rear license plate panel didn't work - far too short. Thinking that I could easily clean any dirt which entered the engine, I merrily went without. Little did I know until recently that it prevented a lot more than dirt entering the engine compartment. After a quick lesson the other day on how heat exchangers work on my 914: fan pulls fresh air, which some of which is diverted through the exchangers, which then goes into the cabin, the bell went off. So with a gap of 3" between the lid and the license plate panel, exhaust was being sucked into the fan, through the exchangers and into the cabin. Gawd knows how many brain cells might have been saved if I had understood the basic mechanics of HEs and where they get their air.

Tonight, using the original rubber gasket as a template, I fashioned a much taller gasket to seal the area between the license plate panel and the hatch lid. Things should improve dramatically. Amazing how understanding the basic principals of an early car can actually be a life saver. I feel like such a moron - but ya don't know what ya don't know.

[chiroracer]

X2 I just noticed a bit of a headache after a trip and about the same time noticed that my lid to lic. panel gasket was flopping in the breeze. Didnt put them together .Thanks for the anecdote. S

[jpnovak]

I have done some experiments with a CO sensor in the 911. There are some surprisingly high numbers idling in the driveway during the initial warmup I have seen 90 ppm inside the targa with the heat off. hat is nearly 3X the OSHA 8 hr PEL. Once you are standing in the car breathing it it stays in your system as bfunke explained. The physiological effects are serious.

Testing at speed I see very little CO in the cabin. Of course, this is with the top out. I have not explored the track car with the windows up.

Definitely get the exhaust checked out as well as the license panel seal. A sport muffler can make the effect even worse given the proximity of the outlet pipes.

[210bhp]

It never ceases to amaze me just how many cars on this board and others around the world are for sale with at least one of the two rear rubber seals missing. This always seems to occur on restored cars when the rebuilder must assume there cannot be two seals in roughly the same place. This at best is a nice indicator of 'if and how well a car has been restored' and at worst (to the unaware new driver) potentially dangerous. I just wonder if there were to be an unsuspecting fatality (or fatalities on a busy highway) through CO2 poisoning where the blame would lie, with the purchaser or the seller? Check your car for rear seals now!! Here is a car sold just last week with the same issues.
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