Tire and Rim size dilemma

[A.T.]

Okay. Let's see if I can keep this simple.

I have an RS replica, primarily track/DE car but still plated for the road. It has a Brembo brake set up, Brembo rotors front, 930 rotors rear. Awesome brakes but a real stretch fit wise. I have two sets of rims. 16x7, 16x8 and 16x8, 16x9. I need to use varying spacers to fit the rims over the calipers. All the fender lips have been rolled (unfortunately rather crudely by a previous owner). I was running 225/45/16 tires on the front, 245/45/16s rear. With the right spacers and the 8 and 9' rims and those tires it all worked with no fender rubbing issues. Well, nowadays outside of Toyo R888s (which are more than I need, I'm still doing a little touring) I can not find one brand of tire that comes in both those sizes in a non slick racing tire. Last year I went with the Toyo R1Rs and gave up a little size. I went with 205/50/16s front, 225/50/16s rear. Now, going by Toyo's spec sheet I'm too wide by .5" in the front and 1" in the rear with my 8 and 9" rim widths for those tires.

Question 1. Am I out of my mind doing that? I ran most of last season with that set up with no issues. I had a little funny tire ware at one track but it's notorious for eating up tires and I was playing around with pressures that weekend.

Why not use the 7s and 8s with those tires you might ask. They'd be bang on with the recommended rim width. Well for what ever reason I need more spacer with the 7s and 8s to clear the brake caplipers and that puts me into a slight tire rub situation. To add to this conundrum I managed to crack one of my precious 16x9 rims at the end of the season. Not repairable.

Question 2. Do I A. spend huge bucks replacing that 9" rim, stay with the 8s and 9s maybe never find tires that really fit them properly but they all fit under the fenders
or B. Go with the 7s and 8s and spend huge bucks having my fenders massaged to accomodate the wheels and spacers?

How do people deal with 15" rims? The tire situation is really getting bad.

Anyway, I'd love to her from experienced track guys about the rim and tire size issue or anyone else with 2 cents worth.

Thanks guys.

Cheers

A.T.

P.S. I may have a lonely but good 16x9" fuchs for sale soon.

[ttweed]

I was running 225/45/16 tires on the front, 245/45/16s rear. With the right spacers and the 8 and 9' rims and those tires it all worked with no fender rubbing issues. Well, nowadays outside of Toyo R888s (which are more than I need, I'm still doing a little touring) I can not find one brand of tire that comes in both those sizes in a non slick racing tire.
Last year I went with the Toyo R1Rs and gave up a little size. I went with 205/50/16s front, 225/50/16s rear. Now, going by Toyo's spec sheet I'm too wide by .5" in the front and 1" in the rear with my 8 and 9" rim widths for those tires.

Question 1. Am I out of my mind doing that? I ran most of last season with that set up with no issues. I had a little funny tire ware at one track but it's notorious for eating up tires and I was playing around with pressures that weekend.

Why not use the 7s and 8s with those tires you might ask. They'd be bang on with the recommended rim width. Well for what ever reason I need more spacer with the 7s and 8s to clear the brake caplipers and that puts me into a slight tire rub situation. To add to this conundrum I managed to crack one of my precious 16x9 rims at the end of the season. Not repairable.

Question 2. Do I A. spend huge bucks replacing that 9" rim, stay with the 8s and 9s maybe never find tires that really fit them properly but they all fit under the fenders
or B. Go with the 7s and 8s and spend huge bucks having my fenders massaged to accomodate the wheels and spacers?

How do people deal with 15" rims? The tire situation is really getting bad.

I am a little confused about some of the details in your questions. First, if all your rims are 16" then why are you asking "How do people deal with 15" rims?" Are your 7 & 8" rims actually 15" and not 16" perhaps? Is there a typo in there somewhere? Secondly, I have rarely heard of anyone who is racing competitively saying that an R-compound tire like the Toyo R888 is "too much" for their needs and wishing for a street tire instead, because they still do some touring. Usually, people want all the grip they can get for racing. If you have two sets of rims, why not put street tires on one set for touring and R-compounds on the other for racing? You've got to be giving up 2-3 seconds a lap or more using the R1Rs vs. a Kumho V710 or a Hoosier R6, which both come in sizes to fit your setup.

The short answer is yes, the tire selection in 15" and 16" diameters for both race and street is dwindling rapidly. If you broke one of your 9x16" rims, you might consider another option--just selling the one remaining 9" and one pair of the 8" to offset the cost of a new set of custom 17" rims to solve your problem. Not only will tire choices open up considerably, but you will have better caliper clearance and can have them made up in perfect offsets to eliminate the need for spacers, while centering them in the wheelwell so that you can maximize tire width without doing any more expensive mods to your fenders. Many people have upgraded to 17" over the last few years in order to optimize their setup due to the shrinking availability of 15 and 16" sizes. You are not alone in this respect.

TT

[Todsimpson]

Tom's suggestion to go to 17" wheels is probably your best bet. I like the Lindsey P2's, the only issue is finding core 16x6's to send to Mike to weld up for you. You can then run 255/40 and 225/45 which should be fairly easy to find for some time. Lindsey will send you 8's for the front and 9 or 9.5's for the rear that "should" fit over your brakes. They fit easily over my 964 brakes, but your setup sounds bigger.

I started with 14's, went to 16's when my car became an RS clone, then went to 17's and now I am back to 15", 7's and 8's. I chose Toyo RA1's in 205/50 and 225/50 as my street and "rain" tire, and Hooiser R6's in 225/50 and 245/50 for racing. With a small spacer and some clearancing the 15's just fit over my 964 brakes and under my RS flares.

Fuchs 16x8's have a problem with clearance and certain big brakes. For example, in 16" diameters, 6's, 7's and 9's all fit over my brakes in the rear but 8's need the spacer. Go figure.

The nice thing is whatever fuchs you have still have some nice value if you make the switch to 17's.

[Harvey Weidman]

I agree with Tom's advice and also..."I am a little confused"
Sounds like he is running 951 8s to clear the brakes and the 911 7s need a spacer...
Part numbers would help.

And good advise from Todd.
"Fuchs 16x8's have a problem with clearance and certain big brakes. For example, in 16" diameters, 6's, 7's and 9's all fit over my brakes in the rear but 8's need the spacer. Go figure"
There are 3-8X16s (951 and 2-911s) all with different back sides. You may have an early 8 that rubs your brakes (and late 6&7s ?). Some part numbers would also help clear up the question.
H

[Todsimpson]

The issue I had were 911 8's. I had run the 951 8's on the front and 930 9's on the rear and they all fit with plenty of clearance.

The issue is the way the inner rim mates with the inner "face" of the wheel. On the 911's 8's, there is an angled section, while the 6's and 7's the rim section stays at a larger diameter then goes at a 90 degree angle to the face. It's the same with 15's-7's fit my rear brakes but 8's need the spacer.

I realize we're kinda in the weeds now, but I thought it was interesting that for my specific situation, 911 6's, 911 7's and 930 9's all fit. So did 17" "fuchs" made from several different 16x6 centers. But 911 8's did not! As far as two different part numbers for the 911 8's-I cannot clarify which ones I had.

Back to the thread....:-)

[A.T.]

Thanks Guys

Tom, yes. I have 16s. My question about 15s was simply out of curiosity. If I'm having trouble finding tires for 16s what must it be like if you have 15s? No typo. Thought that was pretty clear. Don't think I said I was racing competatively. I mentioned track/DE and some touring. An R888 is too much tire. In other words too soft. Ware rating issues etc. Thanks for the reply non the less. If I did finally go racing tire choices would really open up. It's finding something less severe (for track+street) in a 225/45/16 and a 245/45/16 in one brand of tire that is not happening these days.

I think Todd and Harvey have addressed the issue with my other set of rims some what. Thanks, Todd. Thanks, Harvey, again. It appears it's about how the 911 8" is shaped in back of the spokes causeing a need for an offset resulting in fender clearance issues.

How tough is it to find 16x8 951 Fuchs, should I ever need to replace one of those?

Thanks guys.

A.T.

[Harvey Weidman]

Todd,Yes the backs of the late 911 8s are different for more caliper clearance.
A.T. the 951 8s are around but usually in pairs. The 9s will be harder to find.
225/45X16 is usually for track tires. I would consider changing to the 951 7s and 205/50X16 for the front. With the 951 8s and 225/50X16 for the rear. That would open up dozens of tires for you. I know it's cool to get the largest tire/wheel combo that you can. The available 225/50X16 (correct size) and 245/45X16s are not as good as most of the 205/55X16 and 225/50X16 as far as traction or service. Even though they are smaller!! We also use 245/50X16 on the wide body (that opens up a few) , but they usually don't fit the SC/3.2 fenders.
If you really want to go big, then go 17.... 3 pc Fuchs/BBS, Lindsey, Zuffenhaus, Roto Fox to name a few.
IMHO.
H

[ttweed]

If I'm having trouble finding tires for 16s what must it be like if you have 15s?

Just as bad, if not worse.

Don't think I said I was racing competatively. I mentioned track/DE and some touring.

From my experience, when you have two or more cars on a track at the same time, even in a DE, it's likely to turn into a race, of sorts.

It's finding something less severe (for track+street) in a 225/45/16 and a 245/45/16 in one brand of tire that is not happening these days.

The only "street" tires that I know of left these days that also have acceptable track performance in those sizes (given, as Harvey says, that you are willing to go to a 225/50 instead of a 225/45 in the front) is the Fusion ZRi. It's a 320AA UTQG (treadwear) tire that shows up as available from Onlinetires.com for $425 a set, plus shipping.
http://www.onlinetires.com/search/ve...ds/page_1.html

If you're happy with the 205/225 Toyo R1R setup, I would not worry about your 8 & 9" rims being a little wide for the manufacturer's recommended spec. They'll still work fine.
HTH,
TT

[A.T.]

Hey Guys

Sorry for the late reply. Got a little side tracked. Thanks for all the feedback.

I think I'm going to go with the R1Rs again for this season, 205/50/16 and 225/50/16 on my 951 16x8 fronts and 930 16x9s rear. At least I'd like to if I would if I can track down a good pair of 16x9s.

Has anyone seen any of the new stock of Fuchs rims for early cars available through Porsche now? Are they exactly like the originals?

Here's a blurb on the Porsche web site.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessori...-08-16-classic

A.T.

[ttweed]

Has anyone seen any of the new stock of Fuchs rims for early cars available through Porsche now? Are they exactly like the originals?

haven't bought any myself, but the word is that except for the finish, they are just like the originals: http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...s-9-x-15-fuchs and
http://www.early911sregistry.org/for...orsche-Classic.
Last I checked at Sunset Porsche in OR, the 9x16" was selling for something like $1150/ea. plus shipping.

TT