I have mixed feelings. I like Porsche as a independent family owned company, but the family has been out of it since the early 70's. I like their new products, but I just can't ever see them as future classics. To me they are disposable cars built in vast numbers that will wear out and go to the crusher simply not economical to save.
We should all be happy that we have "real" Porsche.
Rob Abbott
I'm enjoying my dinosaur. Porsche's future is more likely an all-electic mini-SUV.Originally Posted by super9064
Peter Kane
'72 911S Targa
Message Board Co-Moderator - Early 911S Registry #100
Couldn't have said it better, Rob.
I watched a segment on TV this morning that discussed the complexity of new cars. Ford now has a class you take when you buy certain models so you can learn all there is to know about "what it can do". IF texting and driving doesn't cause accidents this stuff sure as hell will. Ford dropped from 5th place in customer satisfaction to 24th. The cars didn't get worse they got more complicated. If you are trying to sell into an aging demographic (those with the means) this is not the way to go.
WW brought the Japanese into Porsche to teach them how to be more efficient (read cheaper).
All of the German brands have suffered the slings and arrows of becoming competitive. Mercedes finally got their act together as of late.
If anyone remembers the coming of Lexus you can mark that as the beginning of a major paradigm shift as they were all caught off guard by the quality and price point of these cars. No matter what a dealer may have told you they did "hurt" a bit. I also believe that Toyota lost money on the early cars to grab market share. MB had to change the pay plans for the dealers and no longer was there the markup that had existed previously. "Lean and Mean" would be a good description.
As for Porsche they have become another "used car". One of my major gripes is the quality in the interiors that isn't there anymore. The leather is toasted after about 2-3 seasons with bolsters, now surface dyed, cracking and giving up color. The electronics WILL go bad and soon enough you won't be able to get it repaired. This will not be a car to "hold". Some dealers don't work on cars beyond a certain age as they haven't the means to fix them nor the finances to keep ALL the parts on hand.
Electronics will be the Achilles Heel and Porsche is still battling the black eye of Rear Main Seals and IMS bearings. The new engines are a coup d'état when it comes to technology but it comes with a price. If you can afford to off-load your $100,000+ car every few years you'll be happy.
Give me a rudder, stick and compass. (That would be an early 911)
WW may have made them profitable but something was lost in the process.
Tom
Early S Registry #235
rgruppe #111
I'm glad that Porsche is making SUVs and family hatchbacks now...they make a lot of profit so that Porsche can remain an independent automaker.
From what I've read, it was Wienie King's vision that Porsche make the move from a boutique brand (like Aston Martin and Ferrari) to an upmarket mass producer (like BMW and Mercedes). Porsche's sales are now more than threefold what they were in 1995 and their profit margin is huge. Could Porsche have survived on its own without that move?
Wienie King believed no, so we have the mass market driven Porsche of today. But at least we still have them around!
IMHO, Porsche sold its soul in 1998 with the exit from racing to develop an SUV and the move to the boxster-based 911. Ferry died that year too by coincidence.
Porsches are still great cars, and a 996 turbo is on my short list of next cars, but they are just another upscale mass manufacturer now like BMW and Mercedes.
Last edited by 911E4ME; 07-06-2012 at 09:06 AM.
Tom all good points. Who is left making cars that do not fit this blue print of lean manufacturing; Ferrari? The customer demands the modern entertainment and convenience technology, coupled to 600hp with driving assist computers to keep these cars on the road while they drink their coffee and discuss the current state of affairs. Corporate owners / shareholders demand profitability. Porsche had to evolve as proven by the early 90s when they were left gasping.
Collectability, today's cars are probably best leased under warranty. Totally disposable.... I do think the market place will address keeping these cars alive into the future. I could see owning a GT3RS 20 years from now.... of course I will be 75.
Last edited by Macroni; 07-06-2012 at 01:08 PM.
86 Sport Purpose Carrera "O4"
Leasing is about the only way to fly. A fellow I knew through business loved Jaguars. He never kept one beyond the warranty period. He was wise. I found his secretary was always willing to let me know when he was out dropping off or picking up his car for something broken (which was often!).
75 is just getting started. Ask Rolly!
Tom
Last edited by sithot; 07-06-2012 at 01:33 PM.
Early S Registry #235
rgruppe #111
Tom,
As Al Pacino, so eloquently put it in the film "Scent of a Women"...
"I'm just getting WARMED up"
Rolly
As a recent 1973 911S purchaser I am saddened by the events, but everyone of course knew it was coming for years. I don't worry that much about quality going down hill (witness Audi with its beautiful, high quality, well wearing interiors), but I do worry about the dilution of the spirit. I own a 2007 Audi RS4, the last great Audi sedan. It has personality, performance and is built beautifully. Even though a new RS4 is on the way (though probably not in NA), the B7 RS4 cars are actually appreciating (modestly) now, because the new cars don't have the soul of the old cars. I drove Saabs from 1980 to 2006. As did my wife for the first 13 years of our marriage. And I watched what GM did to Saab and I cried and then I left for the world of Audi. VW can learn from the mistakes GM made with Saab, and I hope they do.
Ravi
Hilarious Rolly. Yet so true.
Karl: E911SR #792 ; RG #420 ; GS #7
'72T Coupe - Sepia Brown
I purchased one of the first MB ML320 when they first came out. After I bought a new Cayenne, I gave it to my Mom so she could pick up my son from school in a "safe" car, she drove a BMW cab. The truck had about 150k on it when it would just refuse to start on occasion. It would start either when the tow truck arrived or when it got to the dealer. This happened about a 1/2 dozen times, and $$$$ before the dealer figured out what electrical control caused the problem. When I got the huge estimate for repair I realized that it made more sense to just sell the car to a dismantler.
I just couldn't believe that I was sending a otherwise perfectly good car to the scrapper, that is when I learned that the electrical components are the Achilles heal of the modern car.
Rob Abbott
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